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Re: Humiliation

Mike Scott Rohan
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SubjectRe: Humiliation
FromMike Scott Rohan
Date2002-05-19 20:12 (2002-05-19 19:12)
Message-ID<2002051919122671187@asgard.zetnet.co.uk>
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Newsgroupsalt.fan.tolkien
FollowsMorgil Blackhope
The message <ac3mnm$mvtff$2@ID-81911.news.dfncis.de> from "Morgil Blackhope" <morestelx@hotmail.com>contains these words:

Morgil Blackhope
Mike Scott Rohan kirjoitti viestiss? <2002051716564971187@asgard.zetnet.co.uk>...

Mike Scott Rohan
For that reason America's loss of innocence may not strike them as strongly as it does the Americans themselves; but few would consider her "humiliated" except those who have an interest in the success of

Morgil Blackhope
terrorism.

Here's something I read on a history book: "Because of the tremendeous enragement among the people after the humiliation of Pearl Harbour, it was easy for the US government to turn down Japan's offers for peace."

Are yo saying that the writer of this is some kind of anti-american supporter of japanese militarism??

It seems obvious to me that same kind of thing can be said about September 11th, without any indication of terrorist sympathies as well.

Of course I am not, but no, the same thing cannot be said. Nor am I implying you are a sympathizer. As with others, I think the problem is a matter of English semantics. The verb " to humiliate" has shades of meaning. One can *feel* humiliated, but whether one *is* humiliated or not is another matter. It's a question of context and perception.

Try these examples. If you're mugged, you may *feel* humiliated in yourself. But in the eyes of the world, to your fellow human beings, you will not necessarily *be* humiliated. To the well-intentioned and law-abiding you will be an object of sympathy, and if you react well, even an object of some admiration. The mugger, though, may enjoy thinking he's humiliated you; so may his friends. But what they think hardly matters in this context, because their standpoint is so partial that nobody objective would share it.

Your position here is as one of the fellow human beings. If you say America is humiliated, you are implying, at least, that American has been objectively lowered in the world's estimation by September 11th -- and I certainly don't think that's what you mean. Sympathy, at the very least, has been the response of all those who do not share the terrorist viewpoint. Pearl Harbour demonstrated military unpreparedness, rather than the natural vulnerability of a free society, so it did tend to lower America in the world's eyes -- but it was chiefly the Americans to whom it was a complete humiliation.

Cheers,

Mike

-- mike.scott.rohan@asgard.zetnet.co.uk