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Re: Republicanism still an ...

David Flood
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SubjectRe: Republicanism still an offence in England? (wasRe: Queen mother (of england
FromDavid Flood
Date2002-04-04 23:06 (2002-04-04 22:06)
Message-ID<a8iibl$smo8t$1@ID-121201.news.dfncis.de>
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Newsgroupsalt.fan.tolkien
FollowsRuss
"Russ" <mcresq@aol.com>wrote in message news:20020403161835.00472.00000114@mb-mq.aol.com...

Russ
In article <a8fpae$s84mu$1@ID-121201.news.dfncis.de>, "David Flood" <NOSPAMmaoltuile@utvinternet.ie>writes:

The UK (or English - it predates the union with Scotland) Treason law is this sort of law. In theory, it's a serious matter to advocate the end of the monarchy. In practice, the state never takes legal action

David Flood
against

the many people who do.

And yet it's still on the statute books.

If (God forbid) a far-right government ever came to power - the present Tories supported by the BNP, for example - then it's not too much of a stretch to imagine such laws possibly being implemented with earnestness

in

NI, for example, if the political will existed.

Russ
Doesn't mere advocacy come under 'sedition' rather than 'treason' which requires some sort of overt act?

Here's the background:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/humanrights/story/0,7369,439239,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4379423,00.html http://www.theballards.net/Harshaw/Martin/Treason.html http://politics.guardian.co.uk/constitution/comment/0,9236,620894,00.html

And from Hansard (which catalogues debates in the British Parliament):

**********

17 Oct 2001 : Column WA93

Written Answers Wednesday, 17th October 2001. Treason Felony Act

Lord Greaves asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they have any plans to repeal the Treason Felony Act 1848.[HL173]

The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Rooker): The Treason Felony Act 1848, like several other laws, has been on the statute book for a considerable time. We keep the need to reform this and other criminal legislation under review. We have no plans at present to repeal this Act.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199900/ldhansrd/pdvn/ lds01/text/11017w01.htm

**********

19 Dec 2001 : Column 319

Treason Felony, Act of Settlement and Parliamentary Oath

5.15 pm

Mr. Kevin McNamara (Hull, North): I beg to move,

That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend section 3 of the Treason Felony Act 1848 in order to establish that it is no longer an offence to express an opinion in favour of republicanism or advocating the abolition of the monarchy; to amend the Act of Settlement to provide that persons in communion with the Roman Catholic church are able to succeed to the Crown; to amend the law relating to the parliamentary oath; and for connected purposes.

As The Guardian said this morning, this is a modest measure. In July 2000, my noble Friend Lord Parekh presented a sadly neglected report from the Commission on the Future of Multi-Ethnic Britain. He concluded that we are at a turning point in our history and can become inward looking or develop as

"a community of citizens and communities".

He called for politicians to show the courage of leadership. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has also called for leadership. He said that what Northern Ireland needs from its politicians, perhaps now more than ever before, is a common vision of a new inclusive society. A good starting point, he continued, would be a determination to tackle sectarianism. He described sectarianism as

"a virus at the heart of Northern Ireland".

Sectarianism taints every aspect of life that it touches. The Bill would strike at discrimination and intolerance in our society. I am looking to assist the process of inclusion--my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister's big tent. Some of the laws that I seek to amend are very old but that does not mean that they cease to have effect.

The Bill is about putting our own House in order and recognising where tradition may directly or indirectly exclude a section of the community. It is about recognising those aspects of our traditions that may inadvertently cause offence and those that are in conflict with our commitment to a multi-ethnic future.

Agreement to proceed with the Bill will have a dramatic effect. It will demonstrate the will of the House to modernise the constitution and all its workings. It will bring the foundations of our democracy into line with our obligations to protect human rights and fundamental freedoms. It was a proud moment when this Parliament put into legislation the European convention on human rights.

The first part of my Bill concerns the Treason Felony Act 1848. At the end of the last millennium, The Guardian wished to publish a series of articles advocating a republican Government in the United Kingdom. It was, however, prevented from doing so because section 3 of the 1848 Act makes it a felony not only--in this case very properly--to levy war against Her Majesty but to

"compass, imagine, invent, devise or to deprive or depose"

her. Persons found guilty of such imaginings or of expressing their intention to abolish the monarchy, even by exclusively democratic and peaceful means, would be committing an offence punishable by life imprisonment.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/cm011 219/debtext/11219-12.htm

**********

And, just for you, a list of the legislation passed for use in Ireland during those years - the Land War:

1830 Importation of Arms Act 1831 Whiteboy Act 1831 Stanleys Arms Act 1832 Arms and Gunpowder Act 1833 Suppression of Disturbance 1833 Change of Venue Act 1834 Disturbances Amendment and Continuance 1834 Arms and Gunpowder Act 1835 Public Peace Act 1836 Another Arms Act 1838 Another Arms Act 1839 Unlawful Oaths Act 1840 Another Arms Act 1841 Outrages Act 1841 Another Arms Act 1843 Another Arms Act 1843 Act Consolidating all Previous Coercion Acts 1844 Unlawful Oaths Act 1845 Unlawful Oaths Act 1846 Constabulary Enlargement 1847 Crime and Outrage Act 1848 Treason Amendment Act 1848 Removal of Arms Act 1848 Suspension of Habeas Corpus 1848 Another Oaths Act 1849 Suspension of Habeas Corpus 1850 Crime and Outrage Act 1851 Unlawful Oaths Act 1853 Crime and Outrage Act 1854 Crime and Outrage Act 1855 Crime and Outrage Act 1856 Peace Preservation Act 1858 Peace Preservation Act 1860 Peace Preservation Act 1862 Peace Preservation Act 1862 Unlawful Oaths Act 1865 Peace Preservation Act 1866 Suspension of Habeas Corpus Act 1866 Suspension of Habeas Corpus 1867 Suspension of Habeas Corpus 1868 Suspension of Habeas Corpus 1870 Peace Preservation Act 1871 Protection of Life and Property 1871 Peace Preservation Con. 1873 Peace Preservation Act 1875 Peace Preservation Act 1875 Unlawful Oaths Act

cheers, David