Subject | Re: Republicanism still an offence in England? (wasRe: Queen mother (of |
From | TradeSurplus |
Date | 2002-04-15 19:39 (2002-04-15 19:39) |
Message-ID | <kfEu8.12697$R52.3693676697@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com> |
Client | |
Newsgroups | alt.fan.tolkien |
Follows | Jay Random |
Followups | Sigvaldi Eggertsson (15h & 46m) Jay Random (16h & 5m) > TradeSurplus |
Jay RandomFranks
TradeSurplus wrote:TradeSurplus
A common cry of the colonizer, "Everyone else did it. We're not so bad." It's not true though. Many nations and cultures arise on the land their ancestors occupied and never attempt to move beyond. Take the French for example. The Celts were colonizers, the Romans were colonizers, the
I believe I did say that France was a colonizer. I was merely trying to pre-empt the inevitable point that all people are descended from conquerors thus all people are conquerors and equally guilty of colonization. As it turns out, I chose a bad example since the French themselves are conquerors and colonizers but they are one of the peoples whose origins are best known to a wide audience. The point is that the French did not inherit the guilt of colonization from their Celtic, Roman and Frankish forebears. Their colonial guilt is their own. In the same way peoples who evolved from a variety of colonizers and conquerors do not inherit the guilt of those colonizers twenty generations later. To say that all peoples colonize, is wrong. Many are happy to stay where they are.and all the rest were colonizers. However, the French are not Celts or Romans or Franks, they are a new people and culture formed from a complex mixture. They did not colonize France.Jay Random
The Basques would beg to differ on that point. In any case, France is the product of over a millennium of wars of conquest by the Merovingian-Carolingian-Capetian-Valois-Bourbon monarchy & the empires & republics that followed. At one time, France did not extend east of the Rh?ne, & large tracts in the northwest & southwest were not subject to the kings at Paris. Burgundy was at one time an independent power; France conquered it. Aquitania, in the early Middle Ages, was a Visigothic principality; France conquered it. Corsica was conquered by France only a few years before Napoleon Bonaparte was born there; if the French had kept out, Buonaparte would probably have been an obscure Corsican _condottiere_. And if you go right back to the beginning of France, the Franks conquered Gaul from the Roman Empire, & established a Frankish aristocracy which kept all political power to itself, & which, despite intermarriage, continued to exist in a recognizable form right down to 1789.
So tell me where _you_ live, & tell me with a straight face that it has never been conquered by one nation from another.You appear not to have understood my point at all. Regardless of whether the territory where I live has been colonized in the past, the people, the nation that developed there is not guilty of colonization, twenty generations later.