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Re: Evolution

Conrad Dunkerson
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SubjectRe: Evolution
FromConrad Dunkerson
Date2002-04-18 12:05 (2002-04-18 12:05)
Message-ID<QTwv8.32528$Rw2.2450493@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
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Newsgroupsalt.fan.tolkien
FollowsGraeme
"Graeme" <graemecree@aol.compost>wrote in message news:20020417191820.08658.00003676@mb-cp.aol.com...

Of separation of church and state;

Graeme
There is no such thing.

There certainly is 'such a thing' - just not the thing you are suggesting.

And a good thing too, because if there were, it would be impossible to jail a person for committing a murder in a church because the laws of the state wouldn't extend in there.

The separation of church and state means that the church cannot dictate laws and that the state cannot dictate religion. You are using more of a 'never the twain shall meet' definition, which is of course impossible. Religious beliefs and laws will certainly sometimes correspond or diverge - that has nothing to do with what is meant by a separation of church and state... which is that laws and religion should not both be defined by one group.

The part I assume you're referring to is a prohibition on government mandates, not a prohibition on speech as such.

Essentially - the government cannot use its power to force a religion onto people or actively promote some religion(s) over others.

A law *requiring* creationism to be taught might be another story, but even there there's a certain difficulty in excluding ideas based on the motivation of the speaker. For example, I have two friends I'm thinking of. One supports capital punishment on religious grounds (or so he claims). The other opposes it on religious grounds (or so he claims). Wouldn't taking your idea to its logical conclusion require us both to have and not have capital punishment simultaneously in order to avoid legislating either one's religious ideas?

No... neither of those involves the government promoting religion. If the government decides to use capital punishment people are free to believe that it is morally wrong. Ditto if the government bans capital punishment. Whether a particular religion agrees with something the government does or not is irrelevant to separation of church and state - so long as the church isn't making the decision and the state isn't promoting belief in or practice of any religion.

It is perfectly legal for private and/or religious schools to teach creationism if they so choose. Where it isn't allowed is in public schools - which are funded and run by 'the state'. If a public school were to teach creationism (either by choice or through a law or school board ruling requiring it) they would then be a state institution promoting a religion - and hence a clear violation of the separation of church and state.

There is no 'free speech' issue here. People are perfectly free to teach creationism to their kids or send them to a privately funded school which does. The >state< however is NOT free to choose a particular religion and say 'this is what we are going to teach'.