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Re: Humiliation

Mike Scott Rohan
SubjectRe: Humiliation
FromMike Scott Rohan
Date2002-05-17 17:56 (2002-05-17 16:56)
Message-ID<2002051716564971187@asgard.zetnet.co.uk>
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Newsgroupsalt.fan.tolkien
FollowsFlame of the West
FollowupsMorgil Blackhope (3h & 51m) > Mike Scott Rohan
Flame of the West (6h & 37m)

The message <3CE4BFC3.83BE91@erols.com> from Flame of the West <jsolinasNoSpam@erols.com>contains these words:

{snip

John Savard
If anything, after all, after being the target of so foul a deed, Americans are a lot *less* inclined to apologize for using their muscle to defend themselves and find and stop those who did perpetrate, or who would perpetrate, such acts. America has become more bold, not more humble.

And it's hardly a humiliation to see someone apparently dancing for joy at the terrorist outrage. It's surprising. It's outrageous. But it doesn't say anything about *us*. They're the sick ones; they're the ones who will have to be humble after doing something like that.

Humiliation may indeed be one of the things the civilized world will have to endure before this is over, in one way or another. But at the moment, we can be very proud indeed - whether of the bravery of the rescue workers in New York, the courage of the soldiers in Afghanistan, or the wisdom and restraint of our politicians who, while resisting the urge to lash out at the entire nation of Afghanistan or the entire Arab world, did not shrink from doing what was necessary to stop al-Qaeda in its tracks.

Nothing has happened that prevents America from holding its head high. Quite the reverse, indeed.

Flame of the West
Thank you. This is well put. You seem to understand us a little better than many Europeans.

If you count the British as Europeans, I'd say the majority understand you very well indeed. And certainly do *not* think of you as humiliated -- absolutely the reverse, both in the aftermath of the tragedy and in your response to it. Of course there are people this doesn't suit, everywhere, and they are now emerging from the woodwork once again. But winning even the grudging sympathy you did in France, probably the most instinctively anti-US country in Europe, was a major achievement.

jsavard's reply is indeed well put, and anticipated what I felt like saying. I'd add only that even the best-disposed Europeans might occasionally get a little impatient with America suddenly discovering the realities of terrorism, which we have had to live with all our adult lives -- from a variety of sources, and endangering our friends and families and ourselves directly. During the Algerian campaign Parisians were regularly diving under cafe tables to avoid "plastique" bombs. Much more recently a very close member of my family was caught by a bomb in the Galeries Lafayette department store there -- fortunately not injured, but blown halfway across the floor, with a partition on top of her. Another got off a crowded London Underground train shortly before a bomb exploded, with the horrifying carnage you'd expect. Every London railway station was bombed during a short period, in which I was using them regularly; I had a couple of near misses. At times many Europeans have had to live with the possibility that any day might be a September 11th.

For that reason America's loss of innocence may not strike them as strongly as it does the Americans themselves; but few would consider her "humiliated" except those who have an interest in the success of terrorism.

Cheers,

Mike

-- mike.scott.rohan@asgard.zetnet.co.uk