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Re: Republicanism still an ...

Russ
SubjectRe: Republicanism still an offence in England? (wasRe: Queen mother (of
FromRuss
Date2002-04-17 22:27 (2002-04-17 22:27)
Message-ID<20020417162718.05173.00000786@mb-md.aol.com>
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Newsgroupsalt.fan.tolkien
Followspaulh
Followupspaulh (20h & 48m) > Russ

In article <unfrbus9lqjsrp30aev3f0at4m8pvspl20@4ax.com>, paulh <paulh@fahncahn.com>writes:

<snip>

That describes virtually every world war 2 resistance group.

And quite frankly, I've never seen anybody but you define terrorists that

paulh
way.

Most people, for example, reconize that there can be perfectly legitimate non-terrorist guerilla groups.

Quiet possibly... but none of the ones in NI are that...

So you say, but you haven't provided an analytical framework to support that conclusion. Your original definition included all guerrilla groups under the banner of terrorism. Since then you have retreated from that strict stance.

Ultimately, what you have to provide is a definition of terrorism that would include the modern IRA but also exclude such groups as the French Resistance.

In the early part of the 'Troubles' the IRA was very much supported by the Catholic population and was even sent arms by the Irish Republic. They

almost

exclusively fought in defense of their own towns and neighborhoods against invading forces (whether loyalist paramilitary or police and sometimes both together). Were they terrorists then?

Probably, they just wheren't performing Terrorists acts when fighting against the Paramilitaries to defend themselves...

So a group can go from non-terrorist to terrorist?

The *fact* that 70% of those killed by the IRA were other combatants and 30%

were

civilians is pretty stong evidence that the IRA were not targeting and

killing

civilians as a modus operandi.

Terrorism is just that.

Boy, that's a stunning piece of logic: terrorism is terrorism. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Well you seemed to be struggling with it..cos to you Terrorism is freedom fighting...unless its not the IRA...when they're terrorists again...

Actually, I've provided a definition. You have not. All you keep saying this that IRA are terrorists but not provided a workable definition of terrorism.

<snip>

OK, so if an IRA unit ambushes a British Army patrol, they are terrorists.

Yes

OK. Why?

But if a an Army unit fires into a peaceful civilian demonstration, they are

not

terrorists?

No, they may be something else, but they aint Terrorists...

Were the Nazi SS terrorists?

No. Although you confuse the terms somewhat. What some of themy did was a crime against humanity, but not Terroris, You can't just fling the word around to try and divert attention against your pet love...

OK, so you've at least now created a class that are 'not-terrorists', which basically includes uniformed troops of recognized states. That's a start but you still need to provide an affirmative definition.

<snip>

Well I defined it a number of times, but you chose to dismiss them and use this false argument instead.. I can't help that, must be a weakness on your behalf perhaps..

Humor me and repeat your definition again. You backed off the original one you gave so I might have missed it if you slipped a replacement in there.

I'm sorry if the facts are getting in the way of your opinion, but facts

are

facts and the numbers are the numbers. If you want to argue that the

numbers

should be interpreted in a different way, then be my guest.

But you don't have facts. You're justifying terrorism based on statistics.. THIS organisation ISN'T cos it met Ratio X, this one IS because it was 2%

too

low. Disgusting...

Maybe, but you have yet to proffer another valid analysis.

Its valid for me... and it works on a basis other than that of a mathematical ratio... I see Hamas, IRA, UVF, SLA and a long line of other groups as terrorists... hell, I'm sympathetic to the Basque cause, but ETA are still Terrorists best wiped out.. and I'm consistent with that viewpoint. You probably agree with almost all of them, but the one you're obviously aligned with..' oh no.. THEY'RE an exception.. see... I drew a bar graph proving they're innocent brave freedom fighters...' bah

You've still failed to answer the simple question "Why?"

Russ

paulh (20h & 48m) > Russ