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Re: The British Secret Serv...

David Flood
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SubjectRe: The British Secret Service...[was Re: Republicanism still an offence in England? (wasRe: Queen m
FromDavid Flood
Date2002-04-19 19:54 (2002-04-19 18:54)
Message-ID<a9pool$5bb0u$2@ID-121201.news.dfncis.de>
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Newsgroupsalt.fan.tolkien
Follows?jevind L?ng
"?jevind L?ng" <ojevind.lang@swipnet.se>wrote in message news:u0Wv8.1947$iB4.5669@nntpserver.swip.net...

?jevind L?ng
Michael O'Neill wrote:

[snip]

Michael O'Neill
1. You need to travel in the north of England and ask the people there what they think of London. You will see my worst assessment confirmed.

?jevind L?ng
I have, in fact, been to Britain many times, and that includes the north.

No

matter how much people in Yorkshire may grouch about the bloody Londoners, they are not oppressed by the south of England, and you surely must know

it

too. Are the people in western Ireland oppressed by the damned Dubliners?

Yes (half-seriously).

Michael O'Neill
2. I cannot comment on the state of mind or abilities of the the PLO or the IRA membership, nor do I support violence in principle.

?jevind L?ng
Good.

Excellent.

Michael O'Neill
3. However I note that violence in practice has had some notable "successes" where one group of people screwed another, including two world wars, Korea, Vietnam, etc.

?jevind L?ng
Violence often pays off, true.

And the victors re-write the histories to justify their own actions. The "white man's burden", anyone?

Michael O'Neill
4. The killings in Palestine and Norn Iron and even 9/11 are admittedly chickenfeed compared to these state-sponsored killing fields, but that doesn't excuse Britain from sponsoring an apartheid state in Norn Iron, nor America from sponsoring an apartheid state in Isreal.

?jevind L?ng
Calling Israel an apartheid state is over the top.

A state - carved by force out of the homeland of an existing 'native' population - to be the embodiment of one particular ethinc group's image, whose main concern is keeping Arab numbers inside their borders under 'control'?

As for NI, I know that there are mixed middle-class areas, and the state does not act aginst

their

existence. It is working-class Catholics and Protestants who cluster together and won't tolerate neighbours belonging to the other sect, and

the

British government did not tell them to do so.

Just by way of a little illustration here:

Number of innocent mixed-marriage victims of Republicans: none, that I've ever heard of. Number of innocent mixed-marriage victims of Loyalists: a couple of hundred? and continuing even today.

Apartheid is when the state enforces separateness on different ethnic groups, and that is not what is happening in NI or even in Israel.

At least, not since embarressment finally forced the British Government to prorogue Stormont.

Prior to that, though, Westminster was more than happy to turn a blind eye to how the "Britons" in power in Stormont were oppressing the "Irish" minority.

(And if you think it isn't - at it's core - racially-based, then you obviously haven't had the dubious pleasure of reading the speeches of Ulster Unionists, even their supposed 'statesmen' like James Molyneaux).

Michael O'Neill
5. The IRA and the PLO are reactions in part the injustices fostered by these two instances of state sponsored apartheid.

?jevind L?ng
If you had just written "injustices" without adding the inflammatory and incorrect "apartheid" I would have agreed.

Enlighten us as to how Stormont wasn't in any way "apartheid". Please.

And the term "in part" is very important here. Michael, I am tired of this discussion. Let's call it a day, yes?

Or even a night...

D.

And I'm still waiting for your retraction of what you said concerning me.