Subject | Re: MSR and Ojay, you're on notice...[was Re: The British Secret Service...[was Re: Republicanism st |
From | Russ |
Date | 2002-04-30 17:08 (2002-04-30 17:08) |
Message-ID | <20020430110808.00985.00010181@mb-cu.aol.com> |
Client | |
Newsgroups | alt.fan.tolkien |
Follows | ?jevind L?ng |
?jevind L?ngSince he is a nationalist, does that come as a surprise?
It does indeed. Your entire series of examples is nationalist,
ignoring any alternative or objective point of view, and evidence which might bring yours into questionWhat evidence do you have that he's ignored everything. Flood has never said he supported the IRA. Your vicious tactic has been to libel and smear anyone who criticizes British policy in Northern Ireland as being Provo sympathizers. The fact is, one can be critical of both Unionist apartheid and British support therof and the IRA reaction thereto.
-- the whole Colombia business, for example,Which means what? Flood said he doesn't support the IRA, so how does IRA involvement in Columbia mean anything?
or the hit-list including some of those politicians you mention as deserving support.Which is only a hit-list to Unionist politicians, right-wing tories and the right-wing British press. The British *government* has specifically said there is *no* evidence of any threat to anyone. But apparently that's not good enough for you since it contradicts your Orange conspiracy theories.
Furthermore, in one example, you uncritically and unquestioningly accept one particular version of events -- that the Secret Service and possibly the police were responsible for the Castlereagh break-in.Well, that's the version the Chief Constable at the time stated.
Yet the investigation of that has not been completed yet, and the evidence and full circumstances are not yet public. It isn't at all certain who is responsible, and it could at least as well have been the IRA or those dissidents who keep doing things they used to do;You simply cannot be that dense. Do you seriously believe the IRA managed to infiltrate the most secure part of the most secure police station in all of Northern Ireland? That they simply walked in and walked out with no one the wiser?
we simply don't know yet. Certainly they could both benefit very directly from it. The allegation that it was the Secret Service etc. arose from largely nationalist sources, IRA/Sinn Fein representatives included, very quickly after the event -- some might think suspiciously, as an attempt at explaining it away.Yet another stunning example of falsehood: In fact, the first person who blamed the Castlereagh break-in on insiders was none other than then Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland Ronnie Flanagan.
You cite it not only as a fact, but as conclusive evidence of British bad faith. You can be doing this not on the basis of established fact, therefore, but of implicit belief.Wrong. Unlike you, Flood has actually cited facts supporting his condemnation of British actions.
An objective observer might well decide that you display bias on that alone, never mind the rest.Yes, so long as the British soldiers and RUC men who killed civilians are also handed over to justice.
I'm delighted to hear you don't support the killing of civilians. I accept that you mean that; but the question then becomes what exactly you mean by "don't support"? Let me ask you a question, therefore -- given the large number of civilian deaths caused by the IRA, including children, would you then demand -- not just approve of, demand and fight for -- the handover to justice and consequent punishment of those IRA men responsible? A simple yes or no.
Just that, mind you -- not "if UDA murderers are too", or anything like that; because murder is too grave to be punished only on a tit-for-tat basis, isn't it?Actually it is. In America we call it equal protection of the laws. I understand that concept is foreign to the British in Northern Ireland, and apparently, to yourself. The fact that you would support criminal sanction on the basis of political affiliation is yet one more example of your Orange stripe.
It would be a very good thing if the UDA killers were punished, I agree; but if no IRA killers were ever punished I would still agree. And I would happily hand the UDA killers over to Eire's justice system, despite its unpleasant record of bias.Care to provide some citations to fact?
They're terrorists, they deserve nothing better. Now, tell us that you would do the same with the IRA killers to British justice, please -- again, a simple yes or no. Tell us that if you knew who they were, you would inform against them -- yes or no?Now if that's not the height of hypocricy.Now you post any libellous allegations against *me* without proof Mike and I'll see you in Court. And that goes for the Scandinavian with the killfile as well.I'm afraid that, whether you realize it or not, your entire post above would not exactly support your own case. If there is to be a peace process, a lot of old attitudes have to be jettisoned on both sides, and I see little sign of that in the IRA/Sinn Fein and their supporters -- nor in the Protestant terrorists and theirs, of course, but then I don't accept their version of history either. That, despite the extraordinarily vicious and often directly libellous abuse that's been thrown at me here already.
Neither, I know, do Oje or the other people who have critized the terrorist stance here, and been abused for it. Your threat of legal action, Michael, is intended to make us knuckle under to that abuse; but to me that threat smacks of insecurity, as if you are finding your own position increasingly difficult to defend -- as if you are aware how vulnerable you are to the same accusations you so readily throw at other people.Actually, it appears intended to force you to provide proof for your assertions or to retract them. You have been invited numerous times to provide proof of your smears. Google is very easy to use. The fact that you have utterly failed to come forward with any proof brands you as a vicious punk, nothing more.