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Re: Republicanism still an ...

Russ
SubjectRe: Republicanism still an offence in England? (wasRe: Queen mother (of
FromRuss
Date2002-04-19 02:35 (2002-04-19 02:35)
Message-ID<20020418203509.07832.00001782@mb-mv.aol.com>
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Newsgroupsalt.fan.tolkien
Follows?jevind L?ng

In article <KhIv8.1904$iB4.5531@nntpserver.swip.net>, "?jevind L?ng" <ojevind.lang@swipnet.se>writes:

<snip>

Also Bloody Sunday was only one incident. The British Army did not, of course, kill everyone they saw. There are many, many examples of historical invasions where the invading army did not "kill everyone they saw". They

?jevind L?ng
are

still classified as invasions. Persian invasion of Greece Roman invasion of Gaul Norman invasion of Britain Swedish invasion of Germany Do I really have to go on?

By "the Swedish invasion of Germany", you presumably mean when Sweden, at the request of the Protestant principalities, joined the Thirty Years' War to help them against the Catholic Imperial troops. That was not an invasion. And why do Irish nationalists always go back to ancient history for arguments? Those events have limited relevance when discussing the modern age. They definitely are not comparable to the troops of a state going into a turbulent area to quell the turbulence.

Like the West Bank and Gaza Strip, for example?

And no, you don't have to go on. The sooner you stop posting about this, the happier I shall be.

Why? Do you have a need to enlighten us with some more Scandanavian linguistics or bad Sherlock Holmes looking for balrog wings stories?

The British Army invaded nationalist areas, against the will of the populace, and killed some people (Not all. Some). This counts as an attack. Responding to an attack by shooting at the attacking soldiers does not, in my definition, count as terrorism. It may count as unjust and/or evil but, as we agree, that is a separate question. And of course the IRA did undoubtedly do other things which _are_ terrorist acts.

You have your own way of interpreting this, I see. Like it or not, the nationalist areas currently belong to the UK.

And the West Bank currently belongs to Israel.

Hence, the British army can't "invade" them. They are legally entitled to restre order there.

I'm glad we agree. About Israel and the West Bank, that is.

Your worship of law and order is so...Nordic...of you. Are you sure there's not a VonLang in your family tree?

Of course, that does not preclude the possibility that they behave like assholes there and commit ciminal acts, but that is not the same thing. Your admission that the IRA committed terrorist acts leaves me cold since I was not discussing terrorism with you.

Considering you joined a discussion talking about terrorism, why would you be left cold if the topic was mentioned?

I was questoning your claim that British troops "invaded" Catholic areas of Belfast.

Operation Motorman.

You say international law does not agree with me. Is there a definition

of

terrorism in international law? Would you like to quote it here?

Apparently, the UN and the US believe there is something called terrorism that one is justified in fighting - hence the invasion of Afghanistan.

Yeah, the one your brethren from Denmark and Norway are fighting and dying in.

So you don't know what the international law is but you think that it says that all IRA actions were terrorist actions? Why do you think that if you don't know what the law is?

I merely pointed out that apparently the UN and the US think there is something called terrorism which entitles them to act against countries harbouring those responsible for it. You ask *them* for the definition they use. The fact is that you are confusing this discussion with the one you have with Paul. He is the one you are quibbling with over the proper definition of "terrorism". My definiton of terrorism happens to be that it is the attempt by a minority (such as Irish nationalists in Nothern Ireland) to impose their will on the majority through violent, illegal means,

What would you say to the hypothetical German Jewish resistance to Nazi Germany.

Or to the real French resistance to Vichy France? (Let's not discuss the dirty little secret of World War II that most of the population of Vichy France supported that government)

And I won't even detail the dirty little secret about Holland and all those SS divisions they staffed. Their grandchildren standing aside at Srebnica is not so surprising after all.

or who try to impose their will on another country using such means.

Violent and illegal?

Well, violent is obvious.

But by whose definition illegal?

Quarrel with that if you wish; I shan't answer you

Par for the course. As the saying goes: If you can't handle the heat..." I don't except you to answer me; directly that is. Although I will look for your answers in your replies to other posters.

Russ