Google| Subject | Re: Clobberin' Time... |
| From | Wes Hutchings |
| Date | 09/20/2001 08:35 (09/19/2001 23:35) |
| Message-ID | <B7CEDC4B.5C81%yyrkoon@cwnet.com> |
| Client | |
| Newsgroups | rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc |
| Follows | Paul \"Duggy\" Duggan |
| Followups | Paul \"Duggy\" Duggan (22h & 33m) > Wes Hutchings |
Paul \"Duggy\" Duggan
From: "Paul \"Duggy\" Duggan" <jc122739@jcu.edu.au> Organization: University of Queensland Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 15:07:35 +1000 Subject: Re: Clobberin' Time...
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Wes Hutchings wrote:
Dazzle me with the distinction that doesn't make you a hypocrite.Paul \"Duggy\" DugganNo. They went to Pakistan by land. Travelled to Indonesia, paid to travel to America, but were ripped off and sent to Australia.Wes Hutchings
Which still places them closer to you.
We are closer, but we are not a nearer neighbour.
You stated they did. That they stopped at the some places along the way is obvious as they SAILED there and they're a LANDLOCKED nation. Please tell me you have an actual point. I'm begging you to get to one.Paul \"Duggy\" DugganYou are making statements about things you don't understand.Wes Hutchings
Would you like to do the mileage on this?
You seemed to think that these people travelled to Australia from Afghanistan. They didn't.
Why do I have to tell you the same things over and over again? That's right, because you're not paying attention or you get it wrong the first few times. We JUST covered this above, it is because your nation turned out refugees and in the same breath you criticize the US for not doing what your nation refused to do.Paul \"Duggy\" DugganI disagree with your comments.Wes Hutchings
Do so with a point that doesn't paint you as a hypocrite.
At what point was I hypocritical?
If you like I can pull up the old post concerning the spamming response debate, in which you choose what amounts to violent action and here today you claim there is no distinction in violent actions.
So which is it? What is your position? Which one gets reversed?
No, because if you were doing that, you'd KNOW my actual position or for that matter you'd know what I meant.Paul \"Duggy\" DugganWhether I support or not a loser like John Hoawrd has no bearing on this.Wes Hutchings
Actually it does as you are using US policy repeatedly in your arguments against me and ignoring or unaware of my actual position.
I am unaware of your actual position, but I know what I've been replying to that you've written.
You stated we should have helped the refugees that your country gave the boot.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
Because you criticize me along with the US for not helping everyone,
I didn't.
The US shouldn't help everyone. In fact they're been helping too many people in the wrong ways.Hindsight is 20/20, if you pull your head out of your ass, then it'll get a little clearer.
Thus calling me and my nation responsible while you refused to help people at your doorstep. Do you know how many tens of millions the US has given Afghanistan this year in food aid?Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
while you admit your nation turned away refugees who arrived by ship.
I admit it, and hate my country for it.
You are truly dense. You're criticizing the US and me for not doing something you admit your nation refused to do. All the while forgetting we in fact have aided them.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
That is hypocritical.
Why?
I'm not. Feel free to make an actual point. To date you're showing your ignorance and refusal to recognize what is said to you point blank.Paul \"Duggy\" DugganBecause I have an opinion, and it is different to the elected officials in my country? I though that was democracy, not hypocracy.0Wes Hutchings
I'll wait for you to try and catch up.
Then why are you still so far behind?
Which was in rettalliation for no less than 2 attacks aaainst military forces.Paul \"Duggy\" DugganThe part where you don't realise that escalating a situation does not reduce deaths.Wes Hutchings
We've done nothing for decades.
Hey, this bin Laden guy America hasn't done anything against... didn't he live in a house that exploded? Fortunately for him he wasn't there...
I'm sure America didn't have anything to do with that.I'm sure your comprehension makes it impossible to distinguish between attack and defense.
Lie all you want, but the truth is America *has* been doing stuff.Show the lie, do it right fucking now.
I see retaliations against acts of terror. I see them carried out by people we helped train to stand against their enemies. I see that once they managed to get that enemy out of their land we continued to help that country. I see that country stabbing us in the back.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
Look at well that worked at reducing deaths.
What America has been doing is the very reason that the terrorism is occuring. You still don't see it do you?
Which part is giving you trouble?
How the fuck would you know? Tell you what dumbass. Go take a look at picks of NY city before and after 9-11-01. Tell me there is no justification for the US trying to stop that. Show it. Do so completely. No more of your half assed accusations. Back it up or fuck off.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
Grow up, these types of people will always find a way to make their cause seem logical to themselves.
Yes. However, it's easier when they can paint the enemy as the agressor, and that just what America is planning to do.
Your ignorance knows no bounds.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
We could have been attacked for running Duracell commercials, it didn't matter to them.
Yes, people are willing to die because of Duracell commericals.
There is a country that has been, with very public American support, attacking Muslim targets with American weapons. Many more people have been killed in that war then died on S11. Strangely they see the Americans as being part of that.And yet they now stand with us. And yet the nation we support in the case you're discussing is outnumbered and surrounded and has repeatedly been forced to leave peace talks because those they were trying to negotiate with decided to kill some of them instead.
Stupid violent people on that side of the fence see that as a reason to attack America.And yet they now stand with us.
Stupid violent people see that as a reason to fight back. People will get killed. Families will lose loved ones. Friends will lose friends.The difference is do you want us to commit suicide or not? Pick one.
More and more angry people will see America as the enemy. Stupid violent ones will attack American targets.Which they've already been doing. This is why we're here. You seem to think Suicide is the answer. If you want that option, then go for it. Walk into Afghanistan singing Give Peace a Chance.
Show the distinction between them and those who stole an aircraft to kill themselves and everyone on board.Paul \"Duggy\" Duggan"Kill everyone who doesn't agree with America"Wes Hutchings
No, kill everyone who indiscriminately kills for kicks.
Serial killers and others like that? What have they got to do with it.
The terrorists that we are discussing have a cause, a reason, a justification.Show it.
Whether it be right or wrong it's still for a reason.Hypocrite to the core. It's alright for them to kill for their reasons, but not for us to put and to it for our reasons.
Just like when America does it... or if America retaliates.No, not 'just like' show the ways in which they are in anyway equal.
And the hypocrite strikes again. Give the reason your nation denied the refugees. Note ours still gives their country humanitarian aid. Note they kill us for kicks. We kill to stop one group from indiscriminately killing another. You apparently vote for suicide.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
We're higher on the food chain.
Gee, with thinking like that it makes it hard to see why is America painted as a tyrant in the countries of it's enemies and cultural imperialists in the countries of it's friends.
No, you claimed the US knew no other way and was going to use only violence.Paul \"Duggy\" DugganWhich will do a lot more then creating matyrs will.Wes Hutchings
A glimmer of light finally reaches your brain.
I never claimed that not violent methods were wrong.
No by not realizing we're using caution.Paul \"Duggy\" DugganI agree with supporting the US, but I disagree with the US reacting in anger rather than with brains.Wes Hutchings
In this circumstance it is people like you reacting without brains.
By advising caution?
So you still don't grasp it, I'll pretend to be surprised.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
Ironic yes?
No.
You are not stating your objections against possible actions, you are stating them against what you consider defined wrongs that WILL happen because the US knows no other way.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
if you took a few seconds of thought you'd notice your house of cards is built on the supposition of what the US is doing.
I'm arguing against certain causes of action. If they don't happen I'm happy. If they were never planned by the US government I'm even happier. But they have been suggested, and I disagree with them
That is my right.
Supply a fucking noun. Are you discussing the past? Specify a fucking event then dipshit. Why don't you try and claim some other action you feel the US has taken and is denying or your imagined belief that I don't know what I'm talking about and that you are somehow privy to Washington Insider secrets of some kind that haven't been on the evening news for fucking decades.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
You don't know. You ignore the fact they are waiting.
You ignore the fact that America has done it
That has NEVER been how you frame your ACCUSATIONS and you know it. Now you're going to pretend you were merely discussing some imagined maybe rather than the series of unsupported accusations you've been making.Wes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
You ignore the fact they're doing more than planning for carpet bombings of villages.
Carpet bombing villages is the extreme case. Even direct targeting of guilty individuals with fatal violence will cause more problems than it solves.
I'm not saying that America will do either, I just stating that [IMHO] it would be a bad thing to do.
Perhaps the nation down under wants to commit suicide. I doubt it. The US has no such policy. wesWes HutchingsPaul \"Duggy\" Duggan
But that is all you and others choose to see, sans evidence.
Deploying the military in something called "Infinite Justice" doesn't sound non-violent.
--- - Dug. --- My other .sig is funny. ---
09/11/2001-
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