Snit
On 4/2/17, 1:58 AM, in article zvhjc003.xyy4@rooftop.invalid, "owl" <owl@rooftop.invalid>wrote:

Ok, the looping in the background is clearly kludgy.

owl
It's not a kludge. It's the way it works.

Snit
Except as you note, it does not auto-update without you writing such scripts and then you see flashing on the screen.

Can you even go from table to table and modify them without starting and stopping scripts?

And I guess this is where we have a value for your tool to have all windows move together... they are all just separate floating windows, not at all the idea of having a single file with tables there (single file as in that is how it is presented to the user... not interested in what is happening in the background).

Which contains a bunch of files (at least in this case) and they are not in any way treated as a single file once they are in a usable format.

owl
The files might be accessed through a single script, which might be tied to a hotkey or launcher.

Snit
I am talking about just sending a spreadsheet to someone and letting them use it. If it is multiple files in the background (say in a zipped format) that is fine -- as long as the end user can just open it and use it.

owl
Why is a zipped format (as in a docx) "fine," but a tarball is not fine?

Snit
Big difference: one you simply save and send (or share online) and the other you have to engage in scripting and unpacking and fiddling with (or more work to try to reduce the fiddling with).

But, as I have said, with Numbers you need an Apple made OS (the program comes with it, I think). So that is a pretty big hurdle to jump.

Really comes down to from the user perspective is it one item they are dealing with or multiple?

It is one of the reasons that FM Pro changed their file format so you can have multiple tables in one file... makes things much easier for the end user.

owl
Documents do not need to be in single files. Are not docx files themselves just compressed archives of multiple files?

Snit
I believe so. Same with the files Numbers use (you can even open the "package" contents and look at it if you care to... but most users have no such need ever).

owl
And you could have a script in the tarball that does everything with one command. For that matter, the tarball itself could be wrapped in a script.

Snit
Right... all sorts of scripting and working with multiple files. That is what I am talking about.

owl
You criticized my video by saying that I had scripted everything in advance.

Snit
Correct: with mine I show starting from complete scratch... other, I suppose, than opening Numbers. I even started on a different file and create a new one. NOTHING scripted or pre-made by me. Just jump in and work.

owl
The thing is, the entirety of what you see on screen is the result of one small script.

Snit
A script you do not show creating... and it means you are not even directly making the product you show. That is sorta my point. :)

owl
That script creates all the spreadsheets, the update script, the gnuplot script, specifies the initial window positions, and executes them. There was no manual creation of anything at all, other than the single script.

Snit
Again, that is pretty much my point.

owl
X11 forwarding lets people easily access and edit stuff remotely.

Snit
Would love to work with your shared content... just post a link like I did. In case you lost my link (looks like it was snipped) here it is:

owl
I would let you shell into my machine and do some X11 forwarding, but you know...

Snit
I do... you do not want to share yours because of security risks. Mine is, right now, shared with the world.