Snit
On 4/3/17, 9:15 PM, in article ahzub003.ag@rooftop.invalid, "owl" <owl@rooftop.invalid>wrote:

owl
Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>wrote:

Snit
On 4/3/17, 7:39 PM, in article a8003gq.bay@rooftop.invalid, "owl" <owl@rooftop.invalid>wrote:

owl
Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>wrote:

Snit
On 4/3/17, 7:15 PM, in article lahuz003.8au33@rooftop.invalid, "owl" <owl@rooftop.invalid>wrote:

...

owl
You whined about dependencies. Numbers is a dependency or the file is worthless.

Snit
Um, what?

Perhaps you do not understand the concept of dependencies?

owl
Perhaps you don't.

Snit
Well, I am sure there are details I do not know... but with the file I am speaking about you need either a modern web browser or the Numbers program.

owl
Numbers requires a Mack. So that's out.

Snit
Actually, nope: does not require a Mac at all.

owl
Oh. IOS. Either way, you gotta buy overpriced hardware just to run it.

Snit
Well, the Mac line is certainly long in the tooth... but not really interested in such a debate. Seems you are pretty eager to change the topic from spreadsheets. Hmmmmm... almost like you understand the things you deny understanding. :)

But, sure, it is limited to what OSs you can use and that is a deal breaker for many situations. No argument here. But also not on topic.

Nothing more (assuming you have those things actually running on your system with all that they need!)

owl
All you need with mine is an ssh client.

Snit
Which I have. So let's test yours!

owl
I already showed connecting remotely from a VM to the host and having the app windows display on the VM.

Snit
Hey, I shared mine in a way where you can just click a link. I likely will set yours up in the next day or two, but why not just give me easy access like I gave you?

I mean, sure, to use a program you need that program. To use sc you are pointing to a bunch of other programs one may very well not even have (even on Linux).

owl
So nothing from a Linux repo qualifies as competition for a Mack app because installing it would install dependencies. OK.

Snit
Not sure what word game you are trying to play. Can you get more specific?

owl
Can you? Why whine about dependencies unless they cannot be met?

Snit
The point had nothing to do with about them being able to be met. Why even bring that up? It is about the end user having to set their system up to meet them. Two completely different things.

owl
If this code were delivered as a repo package, the dependencies would install automatically.

Snit
Right. If. But it is not.

And you are still talking a set of programs... not just a data file. But, sure, if it was automated and from a secure source that would be great... though you still have your scripts which could be risky.

Above you speak of Numbers needing macOS (which is not quite true but close enough). Sure, that is a deal breaker for many situations. I openly admit to the weaknesses of the solutions I talk about. I am honest.

owl
LOL.

Snit
What weaknesses do you think I try to hide?

One thing I find interesting about Linux "advocates" is how hard it is for them to speak of the weaknesses of their solutions... even such obvious things as lacking the ability to have multiple tables on one sheet in a way pretty much any user can easily create.

owl
Granny would not be able to do it with Numbers.

Snit
My intro classes often have many grandmothers (though I have not taught that class in a few semesters). Most of the students, though, are seniors. I have taught it for Mac and Windows.

I do not focus much on spreadsheets but we do a little... I get them to the point where they are given a small bag of M&Ms and they make a simple spreadsheet and chart based on it. In some classes they then combine the data -- depending on their skills and interests.

In a class for people with learning disabilities and head trauma and the like I took them further than that (again have taught that for Mac and Windows). Also true of a class for vets, though I have only taught that on Windows.

owl
You have biased assumptions based on your personal experience with and preference for Mack.

Snit
Keep in mind I also teach on Windows... and use Linux (though not as much as I have in the past). But if you have specific examples of bias you wish to address, even though off topic here, I am open to it. I think we all have our biases. I am open to hearing about mine (does not mean I will agree with you, but I will listen).

And even with those other programs to tie into sc and support your scripts, as far as I know nothing comes close to what I have shown you. Your solution surely does not.

owl
No looping updates required. https://vid.me/txC9

Snit
The flickering of the "running external function" and other flashing messages and the inability to directly manipulate the data would be annoying for me, but if it works for you, great.

owl
Did you watch it? I told you there is no more looping update to cause "flickering" and interfere with editing. Updates are done with magic dust now.

Snit
At 0:04:11 I see "Running external function..." in GAH3. Are you saying you do not even see it? Repeats at 0:21:17 and 0:51:00.

If your screen recording software is not showing all frames might even be others it missed. Or I could have missed some.

There is also flashing text talking about how gah1.sc is being written to, etc.

Care to show setting that up, from scratch, as I did with my multiple table solution?

owl
Why?

Snit
So we can compare how easy each solution is, of course.

owl
People don't make spreadsheets just to enjoy the process of making them.

Snit
Right! That is why it is important it is easy to do! They want to focus on the end product, not the process of creation.

If what you are doing is a far more complex process than that is a pretty big weakness for the exact reason you state.

For what it is worth that is a general statement... there can also be joy in the process for some... you clearly get that and there are times I do, too. Not putting that down.

owl
But anyway, I make my by hand in vi. Here's a line count of the component files:

anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah1.sc 8 gah1.sc anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah2.sc 8 gah2.sc anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l gah3.sc 15 gah3.sc anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l ud 4 ud anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l startem 5 startem anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$ wc -l startemx 5 startemx anon@lowtide:~/code/sc$

Some lines get added at the top by sc whenever there is a write, so the actual lines I typed in are fewer. You can use startem or startemx for a choice of mate-terminals or xterms, but you don't need either one of those startup scripts. All they basically do is add a title to the windows and set initial screen position.

Snit
OK. But you will not show a video of creating your whole setup from scratch (I mean, sure, you can have the terminal open or whatever... and clearly your computer will be booted).