Snit
On 4/3/17, 10:01 PM, in article abzc003.agu@rooftop.invalid, "owl" <owl@rooftop.invalid>wrote:

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owl
I already showed connecting remotely from a VM to the host and having the app windows display on the VM.

Snit
Hey, I shared mine in a way where you can just click a link. I likely will set yours up in the next day or two, but why not just give me easy access like I gave you?

Seems you won't / can't.

Again, just easy access -- no passwords or anything, just a simple link, even if not 100% fully functional enough to get the basics. And allows me to just download a file and double click (assuming I am on desktop Linux and have a common program that generally comes with the OS).

...

Above you speak of Numbers needing macOS (which is not quite true but close enough). Sure, that is a deal breaker for many situations. I openly admit to the weaknesses of the solutions I talk about. I am honest.

owl
LOL.

Snit
What weaknesses do you think I try to hide?

None you can think of. OK.

One thing I find interesting about Linux "advocates" is how hard it is for them to speak of the weaknesses of their solutions... even such obvious things as lacking the ability to have multiple tables on one sheet in a way pretty much any user can easily create.

owl
Granny would not be able to do it with Numbers.

Snit
My intro classes often have many grandmothers (though I have not taught that class in a few semesters). Most of the students, though, are seniors. I have taught it for Mac and Windows.

I do not focus much on spreadsheets but we do a little... I get them to the point where they are given a small bag of M&Ms and they make a simple spreadsheet and chart based on it. In some classes they then combine the data -- depending on their skills and interests.

In a class for people with learning disabilities and head trauma and the like I took them further than that (again have taught that for Mac and Windows). Also true of a class for vets, though I have only taught that on Windows.

Interesting you had no comment on this... did you not expect general users, even handicapped ones, to be able to do the types of things I am talking about? They can (though my classes were before the online tools were what they are now and I did not use them).

owl
You have biased assumptions based on your personal experience with and preference for Mack.

Snit
Keep in mind I also teach on Windows... and use Linux (though not as much as I have in the past). But if you have specific examples of bias you wish to address, even though off topic here, I am open to it. I think we all have our biases. I am open to hearing about mine (does not mean I will agree with you, but I will listen).

I am sincere with this... what do you think I am biased. Be specific.

And even with those other programs to tie into sc and support your scripts, as far as I know nothing comes close to what I have shown you. Your solution surely does not.

owl
No looping updates required. https://vid.me/txC9

Snit
The flickering of the "running external function" and other flashing messages and the inability to directly manipulate the data would be annoying for me, but if it works for you, great.

owl
Did you watch it? I told you there is no more looping update to cause "flickering" and interfere with editing. Updates are done with magic dust now.

Snit
At 0:04:11 I see "Running external function..." in GAH3. Are you saying you do not even see it? Repeats at 0:21:17 and 0:51:00.

owl
The cells in GAH3 get updated, but there is no loop. You see that text when an update occurs.

Snit
I said nothing of any loop.

I noted that it flashes a message. And it does. I gave specific timestamps where it happens in your video.

If your screen recording software is not showing all frames might even be others it missed. Or I could have missed some.

There is also flashing text talking about how gah1.sc is being written to, etc.

owl
It's not in a loop.

Snit
Nobody said the flashing of "Running external function..." was from any loop. But it still happens.

Care to show setting that up, from scratch, as I did with my multiple table solution?

owl
Why?

Snit
So we can compare how easy each solution is, of course.

owl
People don't make spreadsheets just to enjoy the process of making them.

Snit
Right! That is why it is important it is easy to do! They want to focus on the end product, not the process of creation.

owl
So why do you want to focus on the process of creation?

Snit
So we can see how they are created, of course. That is how we can understand how much effort goes into making something like this. Not looking up your exact wording, but even you noted people tend to care about using the tools, not setting them up. If there is a lot of setup that is a big disadvantage compared to a tool where there is little.

With Numbers you have seen it -- just plop the tables in and go. Sure, you have to pick the type of table (or modify others) but you can easily create new ones from old, etc.

All things a "grandmother" can do.

If what you are doing is a far more complex process than that is a pretty big weakness for the exact reason you state.

owl
No, it's not complex. Just a matter of typing a few lines.

Snit
But you will not show the full creation process, as I did.