Google| Subject | Re: The Lone Alien theory |
| From | Robbie Grant |
| Date | 07/19/2001 15:43 (07/19/2001 23:43) |
| Message-ID | <3B56E3F4.77F483CD@ozemail.com.au> |
| Client | |
| Newsgroups | alt.cult-movies.alien |
| Follows | Keith Hazelwood |
Keith Hazelwood wrote:
Keith HazelwoodJust putting my point in context, Keith.
I know what I said.
Yes, that's how the aliens were intended to be used by W-Y et. al., but that means absolutely nothing about their origins. And as for them being bioweapons being the most *popular* theory... well, <incredibly heavy and nauseatingly obvious sarcasm>*must* be true then, mustn't it? </incredibly heavy and nauseatingly obvious sarcasm> Seriously Keith, you know the point I'm making here -- side-stepping it isn't going to make it go away. There is simply *no* canonical evidence for the theory that the aliens were designed as bio-weapons. None whatsoever. Not a scrap. As a theory, I have no problem with it. Just as, as a theory, I have no problem with an alternate lifecycle. You have the fact that some people on Earth wanted to use the alien as a bioweapon, or as the basis of one. That, clearly, has nothing to do with the aliens' origins. The eggs were being transported in a ship piloted by a separate (presumably) species of alien. Yes, the idea of an alien as a bioweapon would suit that scenario, but so would thousands of other (IMO, better) theories. As I've said, I have no problem with the idea of aliens as bioweapons. You believing this, however, represents a clear double standard.Robbie GrantKeith Hazelwood
While maybe you're not saying that the aliens *are* bioweapons (although it does sound an awful lot like that), you're at least saying that you view them as such. With no proof (or necessity) whatsoever.
No definitive proof, but there is definitely supporting evidence. They were being transported as cargo in the belly of starship piloted by another intelligent species. Sure, we can theorize all we want about the reason they were in the derelict, but the most popular theory by far since the original film debuted is that they were being used by the Space Jockey as bioweapons, just as Weyland-Yutani and the USM intended to use them--a point which was driven home time and again throughout the entire series.
I agree.Robbie GrantKeith Hazelwood
No-one here is saying that the aliens *do* have an alternate lifecycle -- merely that they could, and that fans who were so disposed could view the alien that way (or not) if it suited their fancy.
That's fine. Plenty of fans think the shite put forth in the comics is great too. Quite frankly, I think we're lucky that Alien 3 turned out like it did. The unused scripts had many more pointless gimmicks than the final product (e.g. the glass alien, virus alien, etc.)
I prefer the idea that the aliens evolved in an incredibly harsh environment, and were kept in check by one or more other alien species at least as dangerous as themselves. Or possibly, the aliens were the supreme beings on whatever planet they came from, and were slowly wiping/had already wiped out the remaining planetary population, resulting in their imminent demise. Or something along those lines, anyway. Nature at her "bitchyest".Robbie GrantKeith Hazelwood
, although it's *generally agreedKeith HazelwoodRobbie Grant
upon* that they are.
Not by me. Not that I have any problem with you seeing them that way: I just prefer the idea of them being the ultimate Darwinian nightmare, as I've posted before.
As abstract a concept as "perfect organism." It's meaningless to me unless you're talking specifics.
Name one.Robbie GrantKeith Hazelwood
It doesn't matter. Both are pulled out of thin air, and have very little with which to back themselves up.
I disagree. There are PLENTY of things that support the bioweapon theory.
Yes, I agree. It takes one point in the movie, and extrapolates it beyond reason. That was my point. And so does describing the alien as a "bioweapon".Robbie GrantKeith Hazelwood
A flight of fancy is a flight of fancy.
Again, I disagree. The "perfect organism" concept is too broad to discuss rationally.
By comparison, the idea of the alien as a bioweapon is much less subjective because the parameters are far more narrowly defined.Fine, so you have a narrowly defined flight of fancy.
Compared to what? Life on Earth? Just taking the example of one species, the butterfly, the larval stage can vary from a few weeks to up to 30 years for some species; yet, in no case does a butterfly live for more than a year (at most a couple of weeks). A long larval stage does not guarantee a long adult stage and, I think it safe to assume, the same would apply in reverse.Keith HazelwoodWe know for a *fact* they age quickly. The ones in Alien and Alien 3 went from "infancy" to adulthood within a day. This indicates a short lifespan.Robbie Grant
No, it indicates a short larval stage. It says nothing about how long the alien will live.
Logically, a short larval stage indicates a correspondingly short lifespan.
A few months would still qualify as an extremely brief lifespan, IMO.Yep. But there's still no proof that they only live for a few months.
You're equating the aliens to species within an entirely different kingdom?Equating, no. Merely comparing. Simply displaying that nature, when necessary, *can* come up with alternate modes of reproduction.
Yes it is. I was talking about plot devices in movies. You then decided to bring in a real-world example of utter ridiculity. There is far more of a biological basis for believing that a creature could have an alternate lifecycle than that you could sprout wings, and you know it.Keith HazelwoodThere's no reason to assume I can't sprout wings and fly, but that doesn't make the possibility any less silly.Robbie Grant
In reality, no. But we're talking about movies. Tsk, tsk... and *you* told *me* that strawmen were bad...
A strawman argument is when you intentionally restate an opposing viewpoint inaccurately in order to knock it down more easily. That's not what I did.
Keith "In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." -Galileo-- *The Fuzz* You are about to begin reading The Fuzz's new sig. Relax. Concentrate. Dispel every other thought. -"And after that, my guess is you'll never hear from him again"- | http://www.ozemail.com.au/~randrgrant \ / "For such is the nature of men, that howsoever they -- O O -- may acknowledge many others to be more witty, or more / \ eloquent, or more learned; yet they will hardly believe _| |_ there be many so wise as themselves...
07/08/2001-
