Google| Subject | Re: Mickey and Donald (Was Don't aspire to succeed - that right belongs to America alone...[wa Re: O |
| From | ?jevind L?ng |
| Date | 08/15/2004 14:47 (08/15/2004 14:47) |
| Message-ID | <BWITc.16209$qn2.2584@nntpserver.swip.net> |
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| Newsgroups | alt.fan.tolkien |
| Follows | John Swanson |
| Followups | John Swanson (55m) TT Arvind (4h & 21m) > ?jevind L?ng |
"John Swanson" <nospam@nospam.com>skrev i meddelandet news:Xns9545EB5D61042392orpww00@195.67.237.53...
John Swanson[snip]
"?jevind L?ng" <dnivejo.gnal@swipnet.se>wrote in news:7SrTc.16123$qn2.2600@nntpserver.swip.net:
I have seen some examples of how he translates the text; unlike the previous translator into Swedish, he means to follow Tolkien's text very faithfully. And he writes good Swedish. At first he meant to leave the English personal names and place names in the book untranslated, but Tolkien fans talked him out of it. After all, Tolkien himself realized that retaining the English versions of "translated Westron" would not make any sense in editions of LotR in other languages. First he meant to translate Mirkwood as "M?rkveden", which of course makes perfect etymological sense; and also, there is a huge ancient forest in Sweden called Tiveden. Still, I think he was amenable to suggestions that "M?rkm?rden" (one of Ohlmarks' good translated names) sounds better and also makes a bit of etymological and toponymical sense. I don't think one should change major names which have become established in Swedish usage. Speaking of M?rkm?rden, Tolkien made a bit of a blooper about that one in his "Guide to the Names in the Lord of the Rings". He writes:John SwansonBut hey, there will be a new fresh translation soon! I haven't heard about it for quite a while now.?jevind L?ng
I know a little about how Erik Andersson (the new translator) goes about hos task. I believe the result will be excellent.
I haven't seen anything after the interview in Dagens Nyheter more than a year ago. What have you heard?
"*Mirkwood*. A name borrowed from ancient Germanic geography and legend, chiefly preserved in Old Norse *myrkvi?r*, though the oldest recorded form is Old German *mirkiwidu*. Not preserved in English, though *Mirkwood* is now used to represent Old Norse *myrkvi?r*. The Dutch version has *Demsterwold*. The Swedish has *M?rkm?rden*, the last part of which I do not understand, since the only *m?rd* known to me is the name of the fur animal 'marten' (Danish *maar*). The translators of Norse mythology into German or Scadinavian languages must have desired something better?"
Even Homer nodded at times, they say; and here Tolkien snores. It's quite embarrassing, actually; if he had not already formed such a low opinion of the Swedish translator's efforts, he would probably have been a bit more careful before pontificating in a manner that he was not entitled to, given his scant knowledge of Swedish. The name of the fur animal is common Germanic in origin; the Old Swedish *mar?*, "forest", is of a quite different (though possibly also Germanic) origin. As you know, that word for forest is now extinct as a word in its own right but lives on in the names of two big and ancient forests: Kolm?rden ("Coal[-black] Forest") and ?dm?rden ("Desolate Forest"); and Swedish readers, seeing the name M?rkm?rden, immediately associate to a huge, dark and wild wood. This last item is for those who do not know Swedish but might be interested in Tolkien linguistics. I wonder if Erik Andersson will keep Treebeard's earlier Swedish name, Lavsk?gge ("Lichenbeard") or call him "Tr?dsk?gg" instead.
?jevind
08/15/2004
