Google| Subject | Re: Reading LotR and the newsgroups |
| From | Conrad Dunkerson |
| Date | 08/20/2004 22:35 (08/20/2004 22:35) |
| Message-ID | <rgtVc.611$Ff2.67@trndny06> |
| Client | |
| Newsgroups | alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien |
| Follows | Shanahan |
" Shanahan" <pogues@bluefrog.com>wrote in message news:cg5jv60n47@enews2.newsguy.com...
Shanahan<looks around a bit to figure out what standards you mean>
But on the matter of moral standards in the killing of Orcs, I can't think of any contradictory texts. Are there any that you know of?
Presumably you are referring to; "That is, that though of necessity, being the fingers of the hand of Morgoth, they must be fought with the utmost severity, they must not be dealt with in their own terms of cruelty and treachery. [...] If any Orcs surrendered and asked for mercy, they must be granted it, even at a cost. This was the teaching of the Wise, though in the horror of the War it was not always heeded." MR, Myths Transformed - X
This is the view that I take as Tolkien's intent overall. It is repeatedly confirmed in his letters. However, the text above is from a section in Myths Transformed where various theories about the Orcs were collected. Some of these suggested that the Orcs might not have souls;
"In summary: I think it must be assumed that 'talking' is not necessarily the sign of the possession of a 'rational soul' or fea. The Orcs were beasts of humanized shape (to mock Men and Elves) deliberately perverted / converted into a more close resemblance of Men." MR, Myths Transformed - VIII
If the Orcs WERE classified as 'soul-less' beasts or autonamatons then there would be no question of 'redeeming' them and no moral compunctions against killing them out of hand. That said, I think this was a divergent idea which never had much support in the texts. Part of Tolkien's attempts to explain why the Orcs WERE generally presented as irredeemable in the stories.
08/20/2004
