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Re: Calumet files Chapter 7

Tony Cooper
SubjectRe: Calumet files Chapter 7
FromTony Cooper
Date03/25/2014 20:09 (03/25/2014 15:09)
Message-ID<sjj3j9tcphc4s5ha6dlibj8h9cv2bgtcl6@4ax.com>
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Newsgroupsrec.photo.digital
FollowsSandman
FollowupsSandman (2h & 12m) > Tony Cooper

On 25 Mar 2014 17:31:46 GMT, Sandman <mr@sandman.net>wrote:

Sandman
In article <7c33j91hnrsri9jor58stsqj03p65u2ale@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper wrote:

nospam
competitive doesn't mean below cost.

however, it does mean not charging as much as twice the price as available elsewhere, for the same item.

offer products and services to make customers want to buy from you, otherwise they aren't going to. it's really that simple.

either adapt to the changing landscape of online shopping or be gone. that's harsh but that's just how it is.

Scott Schuckert
You really don't want to be swayed from your agenda, do you?

Tony Cooper
nospam goes into every discussion thinking that his position is the only right position.

Sandman
I'm just not what "position" that's supposed to be, here? I mean, the points he posted above are just basic facts.

The first; "competitve doesn't mean below cost" is just a very truthful statement. One can be competitive without undercutting competitors, just look at Apple.

The next - competitive means not overcharging. I'm not sure this counts as a "position", sounds reasonable enough. If you want to stay competitive, don't overcharge for the same products as your competitors.

Next just sounds like logical demand vs. supply. Provide what your customer want and they will buy it. Simple enough. Not a "position" contrary to someone else's I'd wager.

The final statement, adapt or be extinct may indeed be harsh, but in retail it is also very true.

In the end, these weren't his "positions" which the thinks is more "right" than some countering "positions".

Tony Cooper
He makes much of the fact that in some retail stores the sales help is either not informative enough or that they push accessories to increase the sale.

Sandman
But as you say, it's a fact that it does happen.

Tony Cooper
What he ignores is that in *all* purchases online, there is no sales help available.

Sandman
How did you determine that he "ignores" this? Where is the quote from nospam where he made it clear that he is ignoring this aspect?

If it isn't stated, it's ignored. While everything can't be stated, when the position is taken that retail stores do not have helpful staff, and that there is an "online landscape" to be reckoned with, the same analysis of the online landscape should be addressed.

Plus, it's only half true - there are tons of sites out there that can help you find your perfect TV set or gaming console if you just tell it what parameters are important to you.

Within certain parameters that the *buyer* determines. It's the parameters that the buyer is not aware of, and the parameters where the buyer does not know what is good, where it's not available.

Sure, there's rarely an online help staff on online retail sites (but it does exist), but that doesn't mesn that one can't make informed purchases online.

What does exist in online help is no more helpful to the buyer than what is available in a poorly-staffed retail store. The buyer has to know what to ask in both situations.

Tony Cooper
Any help the customer gets at a retail store is more than what any online seller offers. If nothing else, the buyer at a retail store gets to handle the camera before purchase.

Sandman
That is, if the store has it in stock. Large electornic stores have the most popular ones, but the small "brick and mortar" stores rarely do.

You may find that to be true in Sweden, but that's not the case in most places here. The reference is to cameras, and the small camera store is going to stock the same popular cameras that the big box store stocks. They may not have as wide a selection, but that is because the big box store carry things like GE point-and-shoots that a respectable camera store wouldn't carry.

Tony Cooper
It's always the buyer's responsibility to do their own homework. There's no reason the in-store buyer can't check the reviews and customer ratings of something before they make the purchase.

Sandman
Indeed.

Tony Cooper
I may be a bit prejudiced in favor of the retail store because the two camera stores in Orlando are both staffed by knowledgeable and helpful staff. But, if I go to a big box store and deal with a sales person that doesn't know the difference between a interchangeable lens body and a fixed lens body, that's my fault.

Sandman
Oh? I mean.. how so? I mean, do you mean the mistake here wasn't that the store doesn't have knowledgable people on staff - but rather that you didn't know they didn't employ them and you went in there expecting help when none could be found?

It's my mistake if I discover that the staff person is without sufficient basic knowledge and I continue to work with him instead of walking out.

How would one go about to determine whether such staff is on the floor on any given day - or even on the payroll at all?

You can't figure that out in two or three minutes?

If I visit a camera store (which I did today, actually) and they don't know the very basics of photography, or the specifics of their in-store camera models, then I have a hard time blaming myself.

You should if you continue to shop there and end up buying something that is not suitable for your needs.

Scott Schuckert
Now, here's a challenge for you: SHOW US a camera (not a lens cap or a battery) that sells for twice at much in a retail store as through a mail order house. Exact same, current model and brand, that is, say, $200 at Cardinal Camera in Lansdale Pa. and $100 at B&H in New York. Or any other comparable vendors.

Tony Cooper
He won't be able to. That's typical hyperbole from nospam.

Sandman
It may very well be hyperbole, but that's hardly uncommon in a discussion - from either side I might add.

It removes him from any position of authority on the subject. It makes one doubt anything he says. While hyperbole is often used in other cases, nospam and his "never", "always", "no one", "everyone", and examples like this one, he's alone at the top in this department.

That said, I went in to this camera store today asking about soft boxes, and they had a set with two flashes with soft boxes, price was SEK 4,999 ($779) and online I found it for SEK 2,699 ($420). Not exactly half, but a serious difference. That said, the store would probably have taken this into account and adjusted their pricing had I told them about it. That's a pretty important aspect of small retail stores, they value their customers and are willing to adjust pricing when possible just to keep you as a customer.

Unless you found the exact brand and exact components online (which you didn't state to be the case), it's not a valid example.

Your example sounds fishy anyway. If this is a camera store that you frequent with any regularity, and you are just now discovering that they are out-of-line price-wise, one wonders why you ever return.

-- Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Sandman (2h & 12m) > Tony Cooper

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