Eric Stevens
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:51:52 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

nospam
In article <teabs957pkhdcr7jpj35k7i1rgeucci0um@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>wrote:

Eric Stevens
You really have difficulty in expressing what you mean. You previously wrote "a cloud outage might be annoying, but the data won't be lost" when you really meant a cloud outage might be annoying, but the data won't be lost as it should be stored in a copy else where.

nospam
there is no need to say that since the default is for a copy of the data in the cloud.

Eric Stevens
Then you should have said it was for the default case. Otherwise it's a generalisation which isn't always correct.

nospam
the default does not need to be spelled out. that's why it's called the default.

Eric Stevens
The trouble was that it was not said to be the default case (rather than the general case) until well into the argument. Nor was the exact nature of the default defined as such until well into the argument. The problem with your failure to exactly define your terms until after the argument is underway is that you use it to duck and weave and genereally confuse the argument.

nospam
not only that, but one of the key advantages of the cloud multiple devices having access, so it's probably in many places. dropbox is a good example.

now ask yourself how many people have only one copy of their data on a hard drive. the answer is a lot. *they* are the ones who are going to lose data.

Eric Stevens
Ditto with people and laptops and phones.

nospam
no, because a phone is often backed up to the cloud without the user needing to do much of anything.

Eric Stevens
You have ignored my mention of phones for which the overflow is *stored* - not backed up but *stored* in the cloud. The people who do that are certain their data is secure.

Now you say smartphones are "*more* secure since there are no moving parts to fail" when you really meant smartphones are *more* secure since there are no moving parts to fail except buttons and switches which do not store data.

nospam
data storage is either on a hard drive or flash memory, not buttons and switches.

Eric Stevens
So?

nospam
it means that the device can have all buttons and switches removed and the data will be there and readable.

Eric Stevens
Who said anything about their removal? You shouldn't think only in terms of software failures. I know of many cases where failure of devices such as switches, contacts, sensors, gates etc have had quite unintended consequences. I certainly would not rule out the possibility of the loss of data in the event of a failure of buttons and switches.

nospam
when someone says no moving parts with regards to data storage, they mean no spinning disk.

Eric Stevens
Oh, do they? Is that what you meant? Then why didn't you say so?

nospam
because it's obvious.

data is stored on a hard drive or ssd. not buttons.

only an idiot would bring up buttons, and sure enough, one did.

Eric Stevens
And another idiot couln't see the obvious.

nospam
only an idiot would bring up switches. they do move but that makes no difference to the data. even if every button and switch was broken, the data is unaffected.

Eric Stevens
Are you really saying that it is not possible for the failure of a button or switch to cause the loss of data? You will have to be very brave to say that: just because you don't know or can't think of an example doesn't mean it can't happen.

nospam
yes.

data is not stored in a button or switch.

Eric Stevens
Gee - that's simplistic thinking.

nospam
and correct.

Eric Stevens
It's not stored by switches but it's controlled by switches. See above.