Steve Carroll
On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 6:55:41 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:

(snip)

Not sure what model it is but my oldest has an ASUS laptop that seems to be holding up pretty well (he did pay a bit more for his, though). This one my youngest has is pretty decent for a 'consumer' model, I think I could possibly be happy with something similar. I dunno, I may get stupid again and just buy another MacBook Pro cuz it's what I know works well... but I just don't want to spend that much on something I don't really have a serious need for right now.

Marek Novotny
I'm with you on that thought... You could simply search for that model and Linux and see what conversations you find regarding it.

I'm all for sticking with what you know. But in this case that is limiting you. I don't know how you'd react to Linux.

Steve Carroll
I don't run Macs to run the MacOS and I won't run Linux for the sake of running Linux. I care more about app usage than OS usage and, being that so much of what I want this laptop to do is done in the CLI, Linux is not only not a deterrent for that kind of usage, from the little I've seen thus far it appears to be a benefit. That said, Linux still holds a lot of unknowns for me at this point, which is why I'm a bit hesitant.

Marek Novotny
But there is one thing I would say to you. It can be very liberating. Apple can't hold me hostage with their expensive hardware. If I want a server, I build it. If I want a desktop, I choose from many. I can buy the hardware I want and build exactly what I want. I don't have to wait for Apple to build what I want. I'm in control.

Steve Carroll
Trust me, I get it and this part grates on me.

Marek Novotny
I really don't understand why anyone wants to be shackled by Apple.

Steve Carroll
For me it was the apps I wanted to run... that, and it wasn't Windows. But, frankly, I'm a bit tired of paying the Apple tax, I've paid it for over 3 decades and I'm seeing few (to almost no) reasons to pay it for this particular purchase. Even I know the only reason I'm considering another Apple is because it's all I've ever purchased (with the exception of a Gateway PC tower).

Marek Novotny
Don't get me wrong, they make nice things. But I just wanted a server class machine with remote management, hardware RAID, etc. Apple has no such product.

Notice how when I want to experiment with Linux I can build a server with KVMs all native to Linux. I don't need VMWare or VirtualBox. The virtual machines, the virtual network, the host, the guests are all Linux. That's freedom. Apple will never match this, ever. Nor will Microsoft.

Steve Carroll
I agree. I gotta admit... don't take this the wrong way... I don't understand all this server stuff or why anyone would be as enthralled with it as you appear to be... but I'm glad people are because people like me need the 'server guys'. My extent with it is setting up basic dev environments and tweaking .htaccess files, probably things I'd rather avoid if I could... mainly because they take up more time and there's *so* much to learn already.