David Fritzinger
In article <a1fca9e1-b26c-4e06-a929-30cdfbad9a59@googlegroups.com>, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>wrote:

-hh
Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC wrote:

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
On 2/26/14, 15:48, -hh wrote: [...]

-hh
A lot of this in the USA was due to factors of (cheap gas + marketing/profits + Govt Regulations) which conspired to drive a huge increase in the number of SUVs/Light Trucks being purchased...from roughly 5% to 50% since 1990.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
I assure you that an average car buyer in the urop is not a whole lot different than that in the US.

-hh
I know that it varies across the EU. Based on my own impressions (and driving in EU) I'd probably put German drivers at the top; UK, Austria, Switzerland and Sweden as above average, Dutch, Belgians and French close behind. For Spain, I hven't really spent enough time there to say for sure, ditto Czech, Hungary, Norway, etc ... didn't really make an impression either way. For picking who's in last place, I'd nominate Italy, although much of that is attributable more to Vespas in Rome; IMO, the Autostrada in Northern Italy didn't seem too bad to me at all.

In any case, between narrow streets/roads, good public transportation infrastructure and high fuel prices, the generic EU buyer isn't anywhere near as tempted by marketing to go buy a three ton SUV. When one looks around for what's on the streets of places like Munich, there's clearly more big Mercedes S's and Porsche Panameras than there are Q7's or X5's.

However, this huge increase was not aligned with a commensurate increase in the consumer use cases which call for this type of vehicle as the solution. As such, the consumer is buying a product with features XYZ but really only using Y...the rest of the attributes are because they think they need them, or they're lazy, etc. They get XYZ because the OEMs are good at marketing, packaging and upselling.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Well I though with obamaCAFE on their neck the automakers had to squeeze that additional half a foot per gallon out of their behemoths.

-hh
A little, but not a lot: the USA's regulations still have a strong tailwind to favor the Light Truck industry, which is generally populated by more products from Detroit than from EU. Another good example is how the US regulations also kept a foot firmly down on the neck of diesels for so long to similarly try to exclude them from competing on the US market as well.

FYI, a bit over a decade ago, there was another US attempt at protectionism through a set of Federal regulation to try to counter the Hybrid "threat" from Japan (Toyota & Honda). The proposed regulations called for nothing less than a racing class fuel cell to be employed because of the potential fire hazard of a fuel cell with electrical subsystems. During the regulation's "Public Comment" period, the Japanese manufacturers stated that they had no reservations about adopting such a safety system - but they also pointed out that as per the criteria, the proposed new rule would not only apply to hybrids, but also all other modern cars equally (since all cars have an electrical system today and 12V is enough to cause a spark and fire). Lo and behold ... that proposed new rule very quietly went away.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Apparently it's harder to do with permanent awd setup as evidenced by FHI resorting to me-too obamadrive in 2014 Subaru Fartster giving up symmetrical power distribution between the axles.

-hh
Functionally, it is all just a hidden tax being imposed by political cowards: instead of it being in plain sight at the fuel pump to then let the consumer-driven market decide the winners/losers, it is hidden in the cost of pretty much every vehicle. FYI, what's now also on the up-and-coming list of should-be-silly economy measures are "Auto Stop/Start" engines.

FYI, you apparently missed the posts where Nashton revealed that he's just a "mash the pedal" straight-line type. Feel free to ask him why - - despite his prior declarations - - he's now spent more than $70K for a vehicle that cannot do 0-60mph in < 6sec.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Well, I suppose it could if it weren't for a slushbox that will be fried ...

-hh
FYI, over here, manual transmissions are now also on the Endangered Species List because of government regulations that are trying to drive for higher fuel efficiencies. Going back to the question of "who has the worst drivers?", less than 7% of US vehicles have manual transmissions, which means fewer well-engaged drivers:

<http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/driving-stick-pros-cons-manual-transmissions -article-1.1247896>

David Fritzinger
FWIW, "slushboxes" have always been far more popular than manual transmissions, since the '50s. I believe this is, in part, to the fact that US cars were always big, with engines, and fuel economy wasn't really that important. The first generation of auto transmissions only had 2 speeds. Indeed, there is a large segment of the US population that has never driven a manual transmission car.

Now, even high performance European cars come with automatics. I don't think it is possible to get a manual transmission on a Ferrari anymore, and, IIRC, automatics even rule in F1 racing. Personally, I don't like the fact that fewer and fewer cars are available with a manual transmission, as I've always preferred them in my cars. A friend of mine

needed to buy a station wagon, and he chose a Subaru (even though his previous cars had been Audis, Mercedes and BMWs) for the sole reason that it was available with a manual transmission. [snip]