Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
On 2/23/14, 16:51, Nashton wrote:

Nashton
On 2014-02-23 2:53 AM, Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC wrote:

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
On 2/22/14, 21:16, Alan Baker wrote:

Alan Baker
On 2014-02-22 15:05:42 +0000, Nashton said:

Nashton
On 2014-02-21 12:49 PM, Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC wrote:

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
On 2/21/14, 16:28, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:

Lloyd E Parsons
On 2014-02-21 12:48:36 +0000, -hh said:

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
A4 have relatively soft suspensers (soft enough to make me swear nearly evry time I taxi as my apartment complex taxiways over the lying cops and hit the cops with the undercarriage). But it retains composure taking turns. I dunno if it got swaybars worthy of a teenage hardon or what, but it's not your average buick boat rolling into every turn no matter how mildly taken. And it does not squat on starts. And it does not dive during braking. Go figure out how zee Germans managed those feats.

-hh
The A4 does some, as will any vehicle that doesn't have a dynamically controlled active suspension technology. In any event, your option on Buicks as being sloppy old boats is a dated one; in fact, the model that Lloyd bought _has_ a German designed suspension system courtesy of Opal which isn't shabby. True, might not be as sharply turned as others, but the old high seas "Boat" paradigm is dead.

Lloyd E Parsons
Yes, the 'boat' ride is gone in the Buicks of today. I drove both the Encore cross-over and Verano, neither resembled my 2009 LaCrosse's soft ride nor did they corner the same.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Right, they fixed the ride, but now you've got problems with the fucking understeer, cause the fucking thing got fwd.

Premium car? No fucking way.

Nashton
You mean torque steer. At least get your terms straight.

Alan Baker
He might mean torque steer...

...but front wheel drive is pretty notorious for understeer as well.

Nashton
;)

As for Lloyd and his contention that Buicks of today bear no resemblance to older models, at least the older models had some power.

And I'd rather have a plush ride in a NA car, than a stiffer suspension on a car that is tuned to be stiffer, just to satisfy the crowd that buys them and convince them that it is more "European" in its handling than older Cruise ship, boat-anchors.

Now if you want a 4WD with virtually no undesteer, get a 300 HP Maxima and fit it with a front and rear torsion bar and Eibach springs or coilovers and the thing is a rocket ship and sticks to the road during cornering like the tarmac was made from the underside of duct tape.

Alan Baker
The Maxima is FRONT wheel drive, not FOUR wheel drive, Nicolas.

Nashton
Yeah, I wasn't aware of that, thanks for pointing it out.

Jesus.......

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Precisely. Shitload of understeer.

Nashton
You are very prone to hyperbole. First, you declare that Haldex is universally considered junk and now this.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
I don't know about "universally" it's crap in my book (both as a concept and as an implementations available to date) and that's all I care about.

Nashton
If you drive it like a sports car, you can feel the understeer.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Thank you Captain Obvious.

Nashton
Hint, I don't. If anything, I'm more concerned about torque steer. And they have done a superb job in tuning it out.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
... and it's also absent on a lot of cheaper cars.

I'd rather get a stang than maxima if I were in the states. Maxima only advantage is that it's a 4 door muscle car rather than 2 door.

Nashton
And I drive in crappy conditions, i.e. snow and ice.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Right. That's precisely why I want rwd: to get the ass around quicker with the gas pedal.

Nashton
A Mustang? Another cruise ship boat anchor.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Ok, I haven't driven one. And given that I'm not in the states I probably won't. But it's not expensive and it makes sense for some empty nested americans who don't want to pay for intelligence of a euro car.

But I want brain so it's a simple decision between A4 quattro manual for snow and BMW 320i for sunbelt like climates (xi sadly is no longer offered with a stick in the states).

Nashton
But wait, didn't you say that Haldex is crap?

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
I did say that. You found haldex in a bmw? In the trunk perhaps on the way to the musium of idiotic engineering?

Nashton
You're contradicting yourself at every turn.

And an A4 is hardly conducive to transporting more than 2 people and very small kids in the back.

Brake Dive, Acceleration Squat, Body Roll Works LLC
Yes. It's a challenge. It's easier to do in your maxivan. Thank you Captain Obvious again for stating this.