Lloyd E Parsons
On 2014-02-15 16:17:27 +0000, David Fritzinger said:

David Fritzinger
In article <bm7kh5F8md8U1@mid.individual.net>, Lloyd E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com>wrote:

Lloyd E Parsons
On 2014-02-14 18:41:21 +0000, David Fritzinger said:

David Fritzinger
In article <bbb63471-89c0-42e8-86b1-5b81fd73d55d@googlegroups.com>, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>wrote:

-hh
Lloyd wrote:

Lloyd E Parsons
hh said:

-hh
Perhaps he's simply afraid that anything less than a fat-friendly industrial dump truck might cause him to get stuck in a bucket seat, particularly since he's probably already finding the Audi to be a tad narrower in comparison to the Toyota.

Lloyd E Parsons
Went looking at cars today. Drove the Buick Encore, very nice and well equipped for around $20K with some dickering. Looked at the Buick Verano and really liked it but didn't drive it yet. They had a smaller Cadillac on the showroom floor that really looked aggressive. All jet black including the wheels with a very dark tint where allowed. More than I want to spend and I sure don't want a black car, but it sure looked sweet.

-hh
There's a good number of vehicles that look nicer in the showroom than in real life. I went to the Philly Auto Show last week and noticed that the "matte finish" was gone. BMW had been really promoting this at the past two years of shows. Talked briefly with a Maserati Rep about it specifically ... he said that there was one at the show - a Hyundai(!) and that that customer demographic isn't likely to know that you can't take that finish thru a standard car wash without ruining it, etc.

Lloyd E Parsons
Also took a look at our brand spanking new VW dealership that opened just about a week ago. I'm going back and driving the Passat and Jettas including a TDI model.

-hh
A couple of coworkers have VW and have mostly had good experiences. The only bad one was a lousy service rep who blamed the customer for his car's underbody plastic panel coming loose on the NJ turnpike very shortly after his service dept had removed it to do an oil change - it was quite obviously just not properly reattached after the service. One coworker has the Jetta TDI Sportwagon (might have a new name this year?) which he likes a lot...it was on my own short list of VW models to research further.

Lloyd E Parsons
The one option I didn't see on VWs unless you want to spend way more than I think they're worth is automatic climate control. I really like that.

-hh
I hadn't noticed that, but I'd not be all too terribly surprised - it isn't uncommon to be forced into a larger package for a particular option of interest...

-hh

David Fritzinger
Besides, German automobile manufacturers are notorious for pricing the car relatively stripped, with options on the expensive side. It is very easy to take a BMW 3 series which lists at about $43K wind up costing over $50K by the time you add the options you want. Porsche is the most notorious for this, from everything I've read.

Lloyd E Parsons
Well I went over and drove the Jetta TDI Diesel. From a performance and handling perspective, it was a great drive! Really enjoyed it.

But most other things were off putting. Cabin noise not horrible, but sure as hell higher than any Buick I've ever driven or ridden in. And amenities are pretty minimalistic too. Manual climate control, more steering column levels and switches than should be imo, manual seats though they were heated and just an overall feeling of cheapness in the interior. Leatherette vice leather, lots of plastic and of the kind that looks like plastic. Then I looked up maintenance requirements and costs. Pretty darned high in cost. Not talking unscheduled maintenance, just the scheduled stuff. Yeah, I know they give you 2 years of free scheduled service which is 1 year less than the 2013 models came with. But the more expensive service comes after that 1st 24K miles.

They did talk about dickering a bit and VW has a $1K incentive right now. But they don't have the TDI Value edition and claim it is special order and no room to dicker much at all. The difference between the TDI Jetta and TDI Jetta Value edition is about $2700 for nothing I find of value. Frankly I'm not willing to pony up about $25K for a car this austere when I can get a Buick for less that has more in it. So tomorrow I go to dickering with the Buick dealer and see what we can come up with.

I'll go take a spin in the Buick Ver--------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- no tomorrow, I've already driven the Encore. Either one can be had for about $20K with lots of goodies standard as well as driving down the road in relatively complete silence! I told the sales guy at the Buick dealership to get his pencil ready!! :)

David Fritzinger
LLoyd, I agree with most of what you are saying, as I've heard that Jettas do have rather cheap looking interiors. One bad comparison you are making, however, is that you are comparing a diesel with a gas engine. Diesels are always noisier, even when they are offered in brands such as BMW, Audi, and Mercedes, which have been offering a pretty big line of diesels for well over a decade.