Sandman
In article <qo2da9ld5km08af9aunkvj8mhp7baf4ejr@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens wrote:

Still waiting for your support, Eric. You know, the twelve quotes from me using the word protocol incorrectly.

Eric Stevens
I don't know about twelve quotes, but these will do for a start:

Sandman
Why not twelve? You said there were twelve.

Eric Stevens
Message-ID: <slrnl95tl4.ksa.mr@irc.sandman.net>25 Nov 2013 07:04:08 GMT:

"That's my interpretation of the term as well, that a "backup protocol" is something you execute manually.

Sandman
Finally Support! For thE FIRST TIME!!! It only took you a week!

Alas, obviously I have to ask you here - in what way am I using it incorrectly? It was Savageduck that described his backup protocol (which was manual) and I agreed with him. Please elaborate.

Eric Stevens
Message-ID: <slrnl96rtj.ll6.mr@irc.sandman.net>Date: 25 Nov 2013 15:40:37 GMT in its entirety.

Sandman
No, Eric. Quote where I am using the word incorrectly.

Eric Stevens
Message-ID: <slrnl98gue.u9i.mr@irc.sandman.net>Date: 26 Nov 2013 06:45:36 GMT

"I am pointing to the fact that you seem to be refering to both manual and automatic backup's as "protocols". Assuming you don't call it your "file copying protocol" when you copy a file, the term is valid and descriptive, but unsual to be used for an automatic process - which is why nospam assumed you were doing things "the hard way"; manually."

All subtly wrong and clearly understand that you have the wrong concept of protocol. There are others.

Sandman
You can't just quote me and say it's wrong - WHY is it wrong, Eric? I can't find a single usage in the above quote which is wrong. Tony seemed to use "protocol" both for automatic and manual backup routines, and I said that it's unusual to use the word "protocol" for something that is done automatically for you. Again - you can't just quote me - you have to actually call out exactly what the incorrect usage is and explain in what way I used the word incorrectly and what the correct usage was.

Eric Stevens
The crunch came when after I wrote in my Message-ID: <i35q99hq4evlt2q4cnieo9a6ug993cbq31@4ax.com>of Tue, 03 Dec 2013 13:05:00 +1300

"Well, there's your problem. You think a protocol determines what a program does... Maybe that's why you were talking about the totally unrelated FTP before? You think programs are filled with developer-enabled protocols or something like that.

The word "protocol" isn't tied to programs at all. In fact, few would use "protocol" to anything software related unless you are in reference to that alternate definition of "protocol" that deals with *communication between computers*, like FTP or HTTP, or NNTP - all protocols, but not a fixed set of steps.

"What a program does" is defined by the code, which few would consider to be a "protocol" by any stretch of the imagination. "

Sandman
Yes? Eric - please don't humiliate yourself like this. You have to actually point out the incorrect usage and how it should have been used.

I am correctly pointing out above that a "protocol" does not determine "what a program does", which I've also explained to you many times.

Eric Stevens
You then go on to discuss the execution of conditional code etc.

Sandman
Indeed, the things that *actually* determine what a program does.

Eric Stevens
The protocol is not the code; it is not the logic of the particular block of code; it is not any part of the program at all. It is a statement, definition, of what the code must do. In exactly the same way the protocols for FTP, HTTP, NNTP and IP are statements of what the code must do. e.g.

Sandman
I have already corrected you on this, Eric. A communication protocol (which has nothing to do with "backup protocols" which was the topic) does NOT determine what the *code* must do, it determines what the *program* must do. You can use any number of ways to CODE the communication, but in the end - the compiled PROGRAM needs to follow the communication protocol.

But again - the FTP protocol was once mentioned by Tony, but that's not the kind of protocol that was under discussion in relation to backups.

Eric Stevens
... and you responded to four real world examples of protocols of which you are undoubtedly by writing - nothing at all. You completely ignored them.

Sandman
Contrary to you, I *AM* a programmer and have written many clients that use inetrnet protocols to communicate with services, like REST, FTP, NNTP, IRCD, SOAP and HTTP.

The RFC's does not tell my how to code anything, it tells me how my application has to behave, and I can code that in a number of different ways.

This is ignorance on your part, Eric, since you have NO experience with programming and you only look at this on a VERY superficial level, like with your black box analogy.

Eric Stevens
You didn't know at the beginning and you refused to learn and understand at the end. You are a fool and a rogue.

Sandman
Still waiting for that actual support, Eric.