Eric Stevens
On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 16:06:59 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>wrote:

Savageduck
On 2013-12-08 23:11:53 +0000, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>said:

Eric Stevens
On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 04:37:13 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>wrote:

Savageduck
On 2013-12-08 07:53:50 +0000, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>said:

Eric Stevens
On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 20:56:59 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>wrote:

Savageduck
On 2013-12-08 04:14:06 +0000, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>said:

Eric Stevens
On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 19:26:49 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>wrote:

Savageduck
On 2013-12-08 03:10:07 +0000, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>said:

Eric Stevens
On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 15:25:17 -0800, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>wrote:

Savageduck
On 2013-12-07 22:27:16 +0000, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>said:

Eric Stevens
On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 23:20:25 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

nospam
In article <p275a99v4udgmd18f98gq3pik2g95bgrmj@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>wrote:

understanding how the car handles is not the same as being a mechanic.

Eric Stevens
That's your definition. Who is it then that adjusts wheel alignment settings, suspension settings, wings, tire pressure adjustment etc ..

nospam
mechanics.

Tony Cooper
Actually, the pit crew is a team of specialists. Generally, when we use the word "mechanic", we are referring to a person who works on or repairs the drive train of a vehicle...engine and transmission. The pit crew people specialize in adjustments to the vehicle, fueling, and tire changing. While they probably have some mechanical skills, the real "mechanics" are back in the garage. I doubt if any race driver refers to his pit crew as his "mechanics".

nospam
unimportant distinction.

the point is that it's not the driver who does it.

Eric Stevens
It's usually the driver who decides it.

Savageduck
Perhaps in days past, and perhaps in races other than F1, F2, IndyCar, GT1, & GT3.

Today in F1 the car is a mass of telemetry sending data from hundreds of sensors to the pits where a team of engineers sitting in front of a wall of monitors evaluate what needs adjustment and what need to be adjusted in the car by the driver and passes on to the pit crew and those "mechanics" what they need to prepare to fix or adjust on a pit stop. It is those engineers who tell the driver what they need him to adjust in the car on that complex steering wheel. Those sensors tell them stuff such as the pressure in the push-rod suspension on each of the corners, with that they can make balance adjustments to wings, suspension etc. They get feedback on brake temperatures, exhaust temperatures, fuel flow, KERS charge, KERS discharge, and so much more.

Eric Stevens
That's all trimming of what is already there. What is there and how it is set has been decided by previous testing and driver input. The car which races at Monaco is not the same as the car which races at Monza.

Savageduck
No kidding!

Eric Stevens
And why should that be?

Savageduck
Are you sure you follow F1?

The cars are usually the same car but with different set up, for the different tracks. Monaco being a relatively slow street circuit and Monza one of the fastest tracks in F1.

Eric Stevens
Maybe the same shell.

Savageduck
Rules don't provide for any body or chassis change.

Eric Stevens
Possibly not the same engine characteristics (though I don't know the current regs),

Savageduck
Engine mapping is track specific and only a narrow range of cockpit adjustments are available after qualifying.

Eric Stevens
That was my point.

Savageduck
You race with the engine map you qualify with. < http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/8699/fia.html

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines >

Eric Stevens
suspension settings will be different,

Savageduck
Always, with major tweaks through the three practice sessions and qualifying rounds.

Eric Stevens
Based on input and requests from the driver.

Savageduck
...and what the telemetry tells the engineers is actually happening, and what really needs to be adjusted, without the driver going alibi.

Eric Stevens
I don't want to keep hammering away at this but as far as I know for the last 20 odd years or so all the top drivers have been known for their interest in the engineering of the car and their ability to work with the engineers (not just the mechanics). Most of those who don't have that interest don't seem to have made the top.

The telemetry may tell the pit crew that the car is slow e.g. on a particular bend but only the driver can tell them why.

so too will be gear ratios,

Savageduck
Not necessarily

Eric Stevens
Certainly the final drive ratio will be different. Top speed at Monaco is about 177 mph and at Monza it is about 210 mph. See http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/299971/monza-speed-trap-topped-by-ricciardo/ http://www.vivaf1.com/monaco.php

Savageduck
< http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8689/

Eric Stevens
can change gear ratios but they can't change gearboxes. Sounds somewhat Byzantine.

Savageduck
< http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/8710/fia.html

Eric Stevens
any one race the driver is able to use a maximum of 7 gear ratios selected from a total of 30. Presumably these have to be installed under the supervision of an official.

Savageduck
Not quite that simple.

If they have to break an FIA gearbox seal all work has to be done under FIA supervision

Eric Stevens
That's why I said " ... installed under the supervision of an official".

Savageduck
That is 30 gear ratio pairs available to the driver for the entire season. All 30 pairs have to be declared prior to the start of the season. Ratio pairs used on a particular track can only be changed during Practice sessions 1 & 2 (P1 & P2), and have to be declared prior to each change conducted under FIA supervision. No further ratio changes are permitted without penalty for P3, the 3 qualifying sessions, and the race.

...and for clarification you have to go to the "Sporting Regulations":

28.6 For the purposes of this Article only, an Event will be deemed to comprise P3, the qualifying practice session and the race.?a) Each driver may use no more than one gearbox for five consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement gearbox he will drop five places on the starting grid at that Event and an additional five places each time a further gearbox is used. Any replacement gearbox must be fitted with the same gear ratios that were declared under d) below and will only be required to complete the remainder of the Event in question. Any change to the gear ratios declared under d) below will incur a further five grid place penalty. In either case a new five race sequence may start at the following Event.?Unless the driver fails to finish the race (or is unable to start the race for reasons other than a penalty imposed by the stewards) the gearbox fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it for the remainder of the five race sequence. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first, second, third or fourth of the five Events for reasons which the technical delegate accepts as being beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the following Event with a different gearbox without a penalty being incurred.?A gearbox will be deemed to have been used once the car's timing transponder has shown that it has?left the pit lane.?b) If a driver is replaced after the first, second, third or fourth event of a five event period, having finished the first, second, third or fourth Events, the replacement driver must use the gearbox which the original driver had been using.?c) After consultation with the relevant team the FIA will attach seals to each gearbox in order to ensure that no moving parts, other than those specifically permitted under ?d) At each Event seals may be broken once, under supervision and at any time prior to the second day?of practice, for the sole purpose of changing gear ratios and dog rings (excluding final drives or reduction gears). Competitors must inform the FIA technical delegate which ratios they intend to fit no later than two hours after the end of P2. However, one additional change of ratios and dog rings will be permitted if a gearbox change is necessary on the first day of practice before the end of P2. Gear ratios and dog rings (excluding final drives or reduction gears) may also be changed under supervision for others of identical specification at any time during an Event provided the FIA technical delegate is satisfied there is evident physical damage to the parts in question and that such changes are not being carried out on a systematic basis.?e) Other than under d) above, a replacement gearbox will also be deemed to have been used if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original gearbox after it has been used for the first time.

Eric Stevens
You gotta have a lawyer in the crew. :-(

the aerodynamics will be at opposite ends of the spectrum,

Savageduck
They will be adjusted within a narrow range permitted by regs.

Eric Stevens
tires will be different,

Savageduck
Not necessarily, again check the regs. < http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/5283.html >

Eric Stevens
"The rubber compounds used at each race are determined by the tyre supplier (currently Pirelli) according to the known characteristics of the track."

In other words, the tire manufacturer provides tires to suit the track. Different tracks - different tires.

Savageduck
They really only have four dry compounds to choose from to provide the two for the specific track. So it is not a complete unknown, the teams have a pretty good idea of what to expect.

The tires provided by the manufacturer, (the current sole provider being Pirelli) are selected from the pool of six compounds available for the entire season. They select two specific dry tire compounds from the 4 available. The sporting regs require them to use each of the two compounds at least once in the course of the race. They also have to start the race on the compound they qualify on.r

They will have a choice of two wet tires to choose from, an intermediate, and a full wet. If the race starts in wet conditions the mandatory dry tire regs are suspended.

All is explained in the site above.

< http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8680/fia.html

Eric Stevens
(probably) be different: otherwise the cars are identical.

Savageduck
As always read the regs. < http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/8708/

Eric Stevens
particularly thinking of the power steering.

Savageduck
Monaco has slower speeds, fewer passing opportunities, very tight corners, and a bigger elevation changes than found at some of the new circuits. Monza has high corner approach speeds (as high as 210 MPH) and short braking areas putting heavy loads on brakes. The wing settings at Monza are usually set at minimal angles to reduce drag on the high speed stretches.

Eric Stevens
It used to be that they would use smaller wings on Monza. I don't know if that is now allowed.

Savageduck
Lap speed record at Monza is 162 MPH. Contrast that with Monaco where the record on the current circuit configuration is 113.3 MPH. Two very different tracks, two very different set ups.

Eric Stevens
Exactly. So the mechanics cannot (as per nospam) setup the car without major input from a knowledgeable driver.