Sandman
In article <cgrt99plkrpgpufscmg1nchmgd97mgoqg2@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens wrote:

A race car driver doesn't need to know the first thing about car mechanics (but it's a fair bet that many do) in order to race the car.

Eric Stevens
All the succesful ones have engineering skills which help them get the best out of their cars.

Sandman
Of course not.

Eric Stevens
You are welcome to that opinion.

Sandman
It's not an opinion.

Eric Stevens
But then you have to explain how it is that individual drivers will have their cars set up differently to suit their own preferences.

Sandman
No I don't. For these reasons:

1. I said that a race car driver doesn't NEED to know about car MECHANICS

2. You said ALL successful ones have ENGINEERING skills

This is not only clearly false, it is also your usual switching of words and usage of absolute terms.

And your followup question is totally unrelated to this. A race car driver can have their car "set up differently" to suit their preferences without knowing the first thing about car mechanics (and especially ENGINEERING) since they are part of a race team where there are actual mechanics that will adjust whatever needs adjusting, and would do a far better job than if the driver did it himself.

This is a lot more true - the programmer would do well to understand the basics of arhitecture (instead of the otehr way around) to better build solutions for hus collegues. And, interestingly, this is usually how it's done.

Eric Stevens
Goodness gracious. Do yo see the programmer in command?

Sandman
Huh? Your question doesn't seem to be related to the sentence it followed.

Eric Stevens
You seem to have the programmer leading the way.

Sandman
What part of the sentence made it "seem" that way, Eric. The part where the programmer would do well to understand the basics of architecture to better build solutions for his collegues? How do you arrivbe at the conclusion that I meant that the "programmer leads the way"??

Eric Stevens
Because you didn't say the architect could do well to understand the basics of computing.

Sandman
That's not an answer to my question. Me not saying that is not the same as me saying that the "Programmer leads the way". You have a reading disorder. Maybe dyslexia? Maybe ADHD? I don't know, but you clearly can't read English.

Eric Stevens
I was astonished at nospam's narrow view of architects writing apps.

Sandman
...something you've yet to offer any conclusive counter argument for. And indeed - you are now agreeing with me that architects doesn't write apps.

Eric Stevens
Why bother arguing?

Sandman
I have no idea why you keep arguing about things you don't understand.

Eric Stevens
Are you instead suggesting that the programmer has to understand architecture?

Sandman
Nope. If I were, I would have said that. And since I didn't, I can't see why you're asking this question.

Eric Stevens
Well, someone has to understand something about the aother parties role.

Sandman
Nope. "Someone" does not "have to" understand it at all.

Eric Stevens
My opinion is that the architect is the creative person and has the responsibility to know how to employ the tools he is using.

Sandman
You should really stop uttering your opinions in the form of statements of facts. If you learned to read and write English correctly, then most of this could be avoided.

You should have said "I think an architect could benefit from understanding programming"

And then "Ooops, I didn't mean programming, I meant computing"

Eric Stevens
Well, maybe Catia could, but I can't think of anything else (that's not to say there isn't anything). But even making Catia do the job would require a very considerable number of scripts.

Sandman
You're dodging the question. You should now have provided support for your claims that:

1. A "zillion" scripts were used by the architects in the making of the designs in that link

Eric Stevens
By golly yes.

Sandman
I.e. you have no support, and you know it. You know what that makes the statement by now.

2. That those scripts were made by the architects themselves.

Eric Stevens
They would certainly have spelled out what they wanted to do and what tools they wanted to use.

Sandman
Also something you've yet to support, making this the same as the above.

Eric Stevens
The question is, who wrote them and with what end in mind?

Sandman
If you don't know, why would you use the link as an example for your position?

Eric Stevens
I have a fairly good idea. The question is, do you?

Sandman
Absolutely.

Eric Stevens
Then tell us.

Sandman
Why? You haven't told us anything. It's your claim, and you refuse to back it up, why would you expect me to talk about your example? I've already relayed many of the things I know about design work in conjunction with programmers in earlier posts.