Sandman
In article <vrfs991roank0u7aig7q9jfg1pii5j812f@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens wrote:

Indeed. Not understand programming, however.

Eric Stevens
You have to be able to understand programming but not not necessarily to the point of being able to do much of it.

Sandman
It seems, from another post, that when you say "programming", you mean "computing" which is a completely different word meaning something completely different.

Eric Stevens
Yes, I was initially following along with Floyd's terminology before I decided I should expnd the term to computing.

Sandman
Ok, so you just used the wrong word. An honest mistake.

Eric Stevens
That wasn't my claim. If you go back far enough you will find I said "He has to understand what programming is all about".

Sandman
Eric Stevens 12/01/2013 <a6ul99d0qg6ttigh1q2p9phkkcfci6lcca@4ax.com>

"If you are an architect or engineer who doesn't understand programming you can't direct those people who develop the computer programs which play an increasingly important part in what the professions do today."

Eric Stevens
So what's the argument about?

Sandman
"That wasn't my claim".

A race car driver doesn't need to know the first thing about car mechanics (but it's a fair bet that many do) in order to race the car.

Eric Stevens
All the succesful ones have engineering skills which help them get the best out of their cars.

Sandman
Of course not.

This is a lot more true - the programmer would do well to understand the basics of arhitecture (instead of the otehr way around) to better build solutions for hus collegues. And, interestingly, this is usually how it's done.

Eric Stevens
Goodness gracious. Do yo see the programmer in command?

Sandman
Huh? Your question doesn't seem to be related to the sentence it followed.

Eric Stevens
You seem to have the programmer leading the way.

Sandman
What part of the sentence made it "seem" that way, Eric. The part where the programmer would do well to understand the basics of architecture to better build solutions for his collegues? How do you arrivbe at the conclusion that I meant that the "programmer leads the way"??

This is what Floyd said:

Floyd L. Davidson 12/01/2013 <87k3fpl6cb.fld@apaflo.com>

"I'll point out that for at least 50 years every engineer has been taking programming courses. You want to be an architech, you learn programming. You want to design bridges, you learn programming.#

And nospam's followup question:

nospam 12/01/2013 <301120132109061770%nospam@nospam.invalid>

"architects take programming courses?? what apps have they written?"

This is where you joined in. No one challanged Floyd's claim that engineers take programming courses.

Eric Stevens
I was astonished at nospam's narrow view of architects writing apps.

Sandman
...something you've yet to offer any conclusive counter argument for. And indeed - you are now agreeing with me that architects doesn't write apps.

Eric Stevens
And people who understand the programming of computers are that much more succesful.

Sandman
To some extent, that's quite true. But we're discussion your claim that an architext "have to" understand programming (see above). My claim is that no - the don't "have to" understand the first thing about programming.

Eric Stevens
Are you instead suggesting that the programmer has to understand architecture?

Sandman
Nope. If I were, I would have said that. And since I didn't, I can't see why you're asking this question.

Eric Stevens
You are joking. Creating that lot required a zillion scripts.

Sandman
Any support for this claim? And also - any support for the implication that those supposed "zillions" of scripts were written by architects?

Eric Stevens
Are you suggesting that you can buy a package which will do it all for you?

Sandman
Absolutely.

Eric Stevens
Well, maybe Catia could, but I can't think of anything else (that's not to say there isn't anything). But even making Catia do the job would require a very considerable number of scripts.

Sandman
You're dodging the question. You should now have provided support for your claims that:

1. A "zillion" scripts were used by the architects in the making of the designs in that link

2. That those scripts were made by the architects themselves.

Eric Stevens
The question is, who wrote them and with what end in mind?

Sandman
If you don't know, why would you use the link as an example for your position?

Eric Stevens
I have a fairly good idea. The question is, do you?

Sandman
Absolutely.